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#46April 4th, 2011 · 11:39 PM
116 threads / 54 songs
1,535 posts
Chile
Well, I honestly don't think this is BandAMP's end. Not at all! I'm 100% sure this will work out somehow and within a few months we will have forgotten all this... "drama".

But, of course!, for this to work it needs of our hard work. I'd love to collaborate but I neither know about programming (just REALLY basic Java and Python) nor have any money at all since I don't work and I'm a simple university student. Anyway, if there's something I could do please tell me!

I just have an awkward feeling about a bunch of us (you) paying for the service. I'd feel like owing you people but unable to pay. But then, for all I've read so far, there's no other way to keep the Amp alive.
It's a dilemma I have.

Well, I can't think of much to contribute right now but I wanted to state that I'll be here for BandAMP whenever the community needs me. I owe to much to this website and to the great people I've met here.

Take care, lads!

             > Iszil
#47April 5th, 2011 · 04:57 PM
125 threads / 31 songs
1,409 posts
United States of America
Hey, uh, so it's my turn to pitch in.

I've been looking over the server again (I still had access that TK gave me back when the rewrite was happening).  Despite all that has gone for rewrites, updates, and server movements, it looks to me that nothing has happened.  I propose a few steps to make things move:

1- Rewrite the website, duplicating exactly what we know and love about BandAMP.  No feature changes (except to fix things that don't actually work as advertised, like photo uploads, etc).  This will immediately provide a benefit in the form of allowing other community members to wrap their heads around our code, so that they can contribute.

2- Stage it on a server.  We can use the bandamp server, or I have a VPS (virtual private server) that I pay for which could host it.  We could run it on new.bandamp.com or something.

3- Figure out a sane way to migrate the database.  The current database is a giant steaming pile of crap.  I was just going over its structure to map how a new design, and I'm shocked that there are clear-text passwords in there.  My thought is that it will be difficult to run the new site code on the same database structure, but we could try.  This would mean using the bandamp server and not a separate VPS.  There's no way in hell I'd want to expose the database to the public IP for remote access.

4- Begin to gather feedback about basic feature changes.  For example, we use a Flash player right now, and I'd like to see it go HTML5 (with a Flash fallback) so that mobile devices can begin to access the site in a useful way.

5- Open up the new code to more contributors.  We could run a simple mailing list, or have private forums for that sort of thing.

6- Once things are running smoothly, we get off of the old bandamp code entirely.  We should be mostly ready for this in (at most) 6 months.

The ordering on some of those steps could be rearranged, but the point is that we should be ready for the jump long before it is actually required to happen (end of year, as I recall from the first post).

I'm really happy to hear that people are willing to contribute to the site's maintenance costs.  Just the same, I'd like to see us cut costs were possible to make sure we're not wasting anybody's money.  My VPS provider is found at the following address, and they give you complete root access with a bare-bones OS so that you can manage it however you want:

https://www.datarealm.com/hosting-services/vps-hosting.php

I'm happy with it so far.

I've got more thoughts, on the topic of disk space. our current server has a usable partition of 143GB, and we've got 61GB free.  That number is pretty good, considering the space we're using for all kinds of files, loose backups (there's one in the home directory of the media files).


I should mention now that I'm already working on a clean-slate rewrite of the site itself, with no new features.  This is easy.  Where this got away from me in the past is when we started trying to get fancy before we knew what we wanted.  None of that this time.  This thing will be so easy to administer and contribute to that we'll be crying with happiness.

Thoughts?  Maybe we could move deeper conversation to a new thread, if needed?

Love you guys.
#48April 6th, 2011 · 04:45 AM
116 threads / 53 songs
3,059 posts
Netherlands
TonightsLastSong wrote…
Hey, uh, so it's my turn to pitch in.

I've been looking over the server again (I still had access that TK gave me back when the rewrite was happening).  Despite all that has gone for rewrites, updates, and server movements, it looks to me that nothing has happened.  I propose a few steps to make things move:

1- Rewrite the website, duplicating exactly what we know and love about BandAMP.  No feature changes (except to fix things that don't actually work as advertised, like photo uploads, etc).  This will immediately provide a benefit in the form of allowing other community members to wrap their heads around our code, so that they can contribute.

2- Stage it on a server.  We can use the bandamp server, or I have a VPS (virtual private server) that I pay for which could host it.  We could run it on new.bandamp.com or something.

3- Figure out a sane way to migrate the database.  The current database is a giant steaming pile of crap.  I was just going over its structure to map how a new design, and I'm shocked that there are clear-text passwords in there.  My thought is that it will be difficult to run the new site code on the same database structure, but we could try.  This would mean using the bandamp server and not a separate VPS.  There's no way in hell I'd want to expose the database to the public IP for remote access.

4- Begin to gather feedback about basic feature changes.  For example, we use a Flash player right now, and I'd like to see it go HTML5 (with a Flash fallback) so that mobile devices can begin to access the site in a useful way.

5- Open up the new code to more contributors.  We could run a simple mailing list, or have private forums for that sort of thing.

6- Once things are running smoothly, we get off of the old bandamp code entirely.  We should be mostly ready for this in (at most) 6 months.

The ordering on some of those steps could be rearranged, but the point is that we should be ready for the jump long before it is actually required to happen (end of year, as I recall from the first post).

I'm really happy to hear that people are willing to contribute to the site's maintenance costs.  Just the same, I'd like to see us cut costs were possible to make sure we're not wasting anybody's money.  My VPS provider is found at the following address, and they give you complete root access with a bare-bones OS so that you can manage it however you want:

https://www.datarealm.com/hosting-services/vps-hosting.php

I'm happy with it so far.

I've got more thoughts, on the topic of disk space. our current server has a usable partition of 143GB, and we've got 61GB free.  That number is pretty good, considering the space we're using for all kinds of files, loose backups (there's one in the home directory of the media files).


I should mention now that I'm already working on a clean-slate rewrite of the site itself, with no new features.  This is easy.  Where this got away from me in the past is when we started trying to get fancy before we knew what we wanted.  None of that this time.  This thing will be so easy to administer and contribute to that we'll be crying with happiness.

Thoughts?  Maybe we could move deeper conversation to a new thread, if needed?

Love you guys.

I'm happy to read your plans, it sounds like this is a course we should be taking. We will still need to hear from mud - we wouldn't want to "hijack" or otherwise take the site out of his hands without his "go" first. It is still his project even if it may be time for him to let go of it, but we need his words, right here, right now-ish.

Other than that you're presenting a hopeful future there, TLS!
#49April 6th, 2011 · 06:51 AM
185 threads / 27 songs
2,769 posts
Germany
TonightsLastSong wrote…
Hey, uh, so it's my turn to pitch in.

I've been looking over the server again (I still had access that TK gave me back when the rewrite was happening).  Despite all that has gone for rewrites, updates, and server movements, it looks to me that nothing has happened.  I propose a few steps to make things move:

1- Rewrite the website, duplicating exactly what we know and love about BandAMP.  No feature changes (except to fix things that don't actually work as advertised, like photo uploads, etc).  This will immediately provide a benefit in the form of allowing other community members to wrap their heads around our code, so that they can contribute.

2- Stage it on a server.  We can use the bandamp server, or I have a VPS (virtual private server) that I pay for which could host it.  We could run it on new.bandamp.com or something.

3- Figure out a sane way to migrate the database.  The current database is a giant steaming pile of crap.  I was just going over its structure to map how a new design, and I'm shocked that there are clear-text passwords in there.  My thought is that it will be difficult to run the new site code on the same database structure, but we could try.  This would mean using the bandamp server and not a separate VPS.  There's no way in hell I'd want to expose the database to the public IP for remote access.

4- Begin to gather feedback about basic feature changes.  For example, we use a Flash player right now, and I'd like to see it go HTML5 (with a Flash fallback) so that mobile devices can begin to access the site in a useful way.

5- Open up the new code to more contributors.  We could run a simple mailing list, or have private forums for that sort of thing.

6- Once things are running smoothly, we get off of the old bandamp code entirely.  We should be mostly ready for this in (at most) 6 months.

The ordering on some of those steps could be rearranged, but the point is that we should be ready for the jump long before it is actually required to happen (end of year, as I recall from the first post).

I'm really happy to hear that people are willing to contribute to the site's maintenance costs.  Just the same, I'd like to see us cut costs were possible to make sure we're not wasting anybody's money.  My VPS provider is found at the following address, and they give you complete root access with a bare-bones OS so that you can manage it however you want:

https://www.datarealm.com/hosting-services/vps-hosting.php

I'm happy with it so far.

I've got more thoughts, on the topic of disk space. our current server has a usable partition of 143GB, and we've got 61GB free.  That number is pretty good, considering the space we're using for all kinds of files, loose backups (there's one in the home directory of the media files).


I should mention now that I'm already working on a clean-slate rewrite of the site itself, with no new features.  This is easy.  Where this got away from me in the past is when we started trying to get fancy before we knew what we wanted.  None of that this time.  This thing will be so easy to administer and contribute to that we'll be crying with happiness.

Thoughts?  Maybe we could move deeper conversation to a new thread, if needed?

Love you guys.

Great plans you have my friend, but for what?
If you like to take over the whole ssystem incl. codings, database and hardware and redesign of  the look & feel of the site, so let me ask why?
Is it just because you can do it or does it have any background I still don't know yet?
I don't count my chicken befroe they are hatched.

Like PX said, a word from Mud would be very useful in this state of conversation.

Bandamp doesn't need complex and self-developed software (did you think about publishing your codings wiki-like comments included?). And I don't think the database is crap. For this kind of using it helped us out for years now. It's simple and slim and it works. And as long as noone is screwing at the server Bandamp works forever....
We have some security,  organizational and technical issues, ok. By time this can be solved and we solved a lot in the past. So I think you can't say that nothing has happened since your last visit. The frontend hasn't changed but we worked a lot in the backend. But first we need to know exactly what the community would love to see, I think Mud's statement at least. After receiving it we can discuss a new concept. But be aware there are hundreds of people with hundreds of opinions about how to place a website forum like BandAMP in the right corner. Right now we are not at this state (imho)
#50April 6th, 2011 · 09:32 AM
117 threads / 27 songs
1,057 posts
Germany
Tk wrote :But first we need to know exactly what the community would love to see, (imho)

Im not competent enough to judge about the technical quality of our site.
For me as a jerk its fine. Clear , relatively simple, not too many features and options, it works fast and stabile.
There only 2 points Id like to see improved :
1 :  on the audio review-site is the category "VIEWS" . It displays how many clicks a song gets but not how many
real listens. I can click 10 times one track but that doesnt say that Ive listened 10 times to a song  , yunno?
This brings me to point >>>
2 : the stats . If this tool would work , we all had an overview about the real amount of listeners.

Anything else is fine to me
U . L . I .

P.S. After clicking "post" now it jumps to side one of a  / this topic instead side 4 where we are now. Point 3
#51April 6th, 2011 · 10:02 AM
180 threads / 53 songs
1,929 posts
Canada
TritonKeyboarder wrote…
TonightsLastSong wrote…
Hey, uh, so it's my turn to pitch in.

I've been looking over the server again (I still had access that TK gave me back when the rewrite was happening).  Despite all that has gone for rewrites, updates, and server movements, it looks to me that nothing has happened.  I propose a few steps to make things move:

1- Rewrite the website, duplicating exactly what we know and love about BandAMP.  No feature changes (except to fix things that don't actually work as advertised, like photo uploads, etc).  This will immediately provide a benefit in the form of allowing other community members to wrap their heads around our code, so that they can contribute.

2- Stage it on a server.  We can use the bandamp server, or I have a VPS (virtual private server) that I pay for which could host it.  We could run it on new.bandamp.com or something.

3- Figure out a sane way to migrate the database.  The current database is a giant steaming pile of crap.  I was just going over its structure to map how a new design, and I'm shocked that there are clear-text passwords in there.  My thought is that it will be difficult to run the new site code on the same database structure, but we could try.  This would mean using the bandamp server and not a separate VPS.  There's no way in hell I'd want to expose the database to the public IP for remote access.

4- Begin to gather feedback about basic feature changes.  For example, we use a Flash player right now, and I'd like to see it go HTML5 (with a Flash fallback) so that mobile devices can begin to access the site in a useful way.

5- Open up the new code to more contributors.  We could run a simple mailing list, or have private forums for that sort of thing.

6- Once things are running smoothly, we get off of the old bandamp code entirely.  We should be mostly ready for this in (at most) 6 months.

The ordering on some of those steps could be rearranged, but the point is that we should be ready for the jump long before it is actually required to happen (end of year, as I recall from the first post).

I'm really happy to hear that people are willing to contribute to the site's maintenance costs.  Just the same, I'd like to see us cut costs were possible to make sure we're not wasting anybody's money.  My VPS provider is found at the following address, and they give you complete root access with a bare-bones OS so that you can manage it however you want:

https://www.datarealm.com/hosting-services/vps-hosting.php

I'm happy with it so far.

I've got more thoughts, on the topic of disk space. our current server has a usable partition of 143GB, and we've got 61GB free.  That number is pretty good, considering the space we're using for all kinds of files, loose backups (there's one in the home directory of the media files).


I should mention now that I'm already working on a clean-slate rewrite of the site itself, with no new features.  This is easy.  Where this got away from me in the past is when we started trying to get fancy before we knew what we wanted.  None of that this time.  This thing will be so easy to administer and contribute to that we'll be crying with happiness.

Thoughts?  Maybe we could move deeper conversation to a new thread, if needed?

Love you guys.

Great plans you have my friend, but for what?
If you like to take over the whole ssystem incl. codings, database and hardware and redesign of  the look & feel of the site, so let me ask why?
Is it just because you can do it or does it have any background I still don't know yet?
I don't count my chicken befroe they are hatched.

Like PX said, a word from Mud would be very useful in this state of conversation.

Bandamp doesn't need complex and self-developed software (did you think about publishing your codings wiki-like comments included?). And I don't think the database is crap. For this kind of using it helped us out for years now. It's simple and slim and it works. And as long as noone is screwing at the server Bandamp works forever....
We have some security,  organizational and technical issues, ok. By time this can be solved and we solved a lot in the past. So I think you can't say that nothing has happened since your last visit. The frontend hasn't changed but we worked a lot in the backend. But first we need to know exactly what the community would love to see, I think Mud's statement at least. After receiving it we can discuss a new concept. But be aware there are hundreds of people with hundreds of opinions about how to place a website forum like BandAMP in the right corner. Right now we are not at this state (imho)

Visually, I think the site should stay the same. I love the way this looks and runs...its so diffrent and unique from other forums and it honestly just feels like home. There's no clutter, no crap, and its so simple and smooth.
I do like what ULI was saying about the stats thing...I've always wanted that to work.
#52April 6th, 2011 · 11:14 AM
185 threads / 27 songs
2,769 posts
Germany
1. You/we can't tell the player that a song was heard until end. As far as I know the wimpy player we are using doesn't have any callback functions to get the progress in percentage or a simple "True" when it reached the end. So it's easier to count the initial click.

2. The stat thing is part of the webserver. The server has to be stopped to unlock and close the open file before performing some analysis by a script which has to be started manually. The script runs through all rows and sets the play clicks into the right month and date. Then it clears the file. After that the webserver hast to be restarted and it creates a new stat file to collect all data. The last time I did like that was followed by a frozen server a few days later and it took us a week to find a finger to press the reset button. To move this statistics into the database (where it belongs to imo) is fine but results into php codings again what scared me to do. Don't know how big this file is at the moment, but it seems to have some 100mb.

TLS could type the above circumstances into the FAQ section of our site.
#53April 6th, 2011 · 11:19 AM
340 threads / 59 songs
4,344 posts
United Kingdom
TonightsLastSong wrote…
Hey, uh, so it's my turn to pitch in.

I've been looking over the server again (I still had access that TK gave me back when the rewrite was happening).  Despite all that has gone for rewrites, updates, and server movements, it looks to me that nothing has happened.  I propose a few steps to make things move:

1- Rewrite the website, duplicating exactly what we know and love about BandAMP.  No feature changes (except to fix things that don't actually work as advertised, like photo uploads, etc).  This will immediately provide a benefit in the form of allowing other community members to wrap their heads around our code, so that they can contribute.

2- Stage it on a server.  We can use the bandamp server, or I have a VPS (virtual private server) that I pay for which could host it.  We could run it on new.bandamp.com or something.

3- Figure out a sane way to migrate the database.  The current database is a giant steaming pile of crap.  I was just going over its structure to map how a new design, and I'm shocked that there are clear-text passwords in there.  My thought is that it will be difficult to run the new site code on the same database structure, but we could try.  This would mean using the bandamp server and not a separate VPS.  There's no way in hell I'd want to expose the database to the public IP for remote access.

4- Begin to gather feedback about basic feature changes.  For example, we use a Flash player right now, and I'd like to see it go HTML5 (with a Flash fallback) so that mobile devices can begin to access the site in a useful way.

5- Open up the new code to more contributors.  We could run a simple mailing list, or have private forums for that sort of thing.

6- Once things are running smoothly, we get off of the old bandamp code entirely.  We should be mostly ready for this in (at most) 6 months.

The ordering on some of those steps could be rearranged, but the point is that we should be ready for the jump long before it is actually required to happen (end of year, as I recall from the first post).

I'm really happy to hear that people are willing to contribute to the site's maintenance costs.  Just the same, I'd like to see us cut costs were possible to make sure we're not wasting anybody's money.  My VPS provider is found at the following address, and they give you complete root access with a bare-bones OS so that you can manage it however you want:

https://www.datarealm.com/hosting-services/vps-hosting.php

I'm happy with it so far.

I've got more thoughts, on the topic of disk space. our current server has a usable partition of 143GB, and we've got 61GB free.  That number is pretty good, considering the space we're using for all kinds of files, loose backups (there's one in the home directory of the media files).


I should mention now that I'm already working on a clean-slate rewrite of the site itself, with no new features.  This is easy.  Where this got away from me in the past is when we started trying to get fancy before we knew what we wanted.  None of that this time.  This thing will be so easy to administer and contribute to that we'll be crying with happiness.

Thoughts?  Maybe we could move deeper conversation to a new thread, if needed?

Love you guys.

So! TLS ... I only wished you happy birthday and that maybe a few ideas wouldn't go amiss, I personally liked a lot of ideas you had .... last time .
As for now, lots of cool ideas and loads of good positive energy ... but .... DO NOT GO CHANGING ANYTHING WHERE BANDAMP OR BANDAMPS SERVER IS CONSERNED ..... THANK YOU

We've been at it quietly keeping this place going while everyone does their thing, getting married, going to work, getting divorced, looking for work ..... a lot of things happen to a lot of people in a space of time .....

A welcome back to you Tim, but keep your pants on and let us carry on what we were doing. ......

Like going from light grey to black to light grey and back again !!  
#54April 6th, 2011 · 11:24 AM
340 threads / 59 songs
4,344 posts
United Kingdom
ULI wrote…
Tk wrote :But first we need to know exactly what the community would love to see, (imho)

Im not competent enough to judge about the technical quality of our site.
For me as a jerk its fine. Clear , relatively simple, not too many features and options, it works fast and stabile.
There only 2 points Id like to see improved :
1 :  on the audio review-site is the category "VIEWS" . It displays how many clicks a song gets but not how many
real listens. I can click 10 times one track but that doesnt say that Ive listened 10 times to a song  , yunno?
This brings me to point >>>
2 : the stats . If this tool would work , we all had an overview about the real amount of listeners.

Anything else is fine to me
U . L . I .

P.S. After clicking "post" now it jumps to side one of a  / this topic instead side 4 where we are now. Point 3 ;)
Good point like this should be in the Ideas and Feedback forum with a fitting title..... if only to get them together, that if and when the chance comes we can look through them ...... loose suggestions around the site tend to get lost in the post if you know what I mean.
#55April 6th, 2011 · 11:53 AM
117 threads / 27 songs
1,057 posts
Germany
kings wrote…
Good point like this should be in the Ideas and Feedback forum with a fitting title..... if only to get them together, that if and when the chance comes we can look through them ...... loose suggestions around the site tend to get lost in the post if you know what I mean.
Can you carry it to the right topic, kings?
#56April 6th, 2011 · 12:34 PM
125 threads / 31 songs
1,409 posts
United States of America
Just wanted to acknowledge the comments about keeping things the same-- it would be really premature to try to change the way things operated unless we had a good grasp on the code (and how to modify it safely).  I've got no problem with new features in the long run, but of course step 1 is pretty straightforward: duplicate what we have.

TritonKeyboarder wrote…
Great plans you have my friend, but for what?
If you like to take over the whole ssystem incl. codings, database and hardware and redesign of  the look & feel of the site, so let me ask why?
Is it just because you can do it or does it have any background I still don't know yet?

I'm really not completely sure what you mean.  My comments about servers are just me exploring.  Earlier in the thread there was discussion about how much the current server costs per month, and Mud talking about how some of the bandwidth allotment might be overkill.  Other than that I am uninterested in the platform, so long as it is modern enough to install recent versions of software.

Here are my feelings about our current situation right now, which hopefully provides insight into my perspective:

- website hard-codes admins and their ID numbers directly into a z_func.php file.  Not ideal, especially since that file is named poorly.

- website is written in PHP that is incredibly hard to parse, even for people who know PHP

- the code uses insecure and outdated features of PHP versions of the past (like some strange uses of automatic variable globals)

- the HTML and CSS are equally hard to read, and are harder for members of the community to analyze or change.  People have expressed a desire to have a choice of a lighter theme, because they don't like the darker feel.  Will they ever get what they want if we just hand them a mess of CSS and tell them to have at it?  The more ideal solution would be to fix up the HTML, modernize the HTML and CSS, and name the files accurately.  I don't know about anybody else, but "forge.css" doesn't tell me much, particularly since some of the forge styles are used in the forum listings (nothing to do with comment boxes).

TritonKeyboarder wrote…
Bandamp doesn't need complex and self-developed software (did you think about publishing your codings wiki-like comments included?).

I'm proposing nothing more than what PHP is.  PHP is the ultimate in homebrew, and it's complex the way it's written right now.  What I propose is using a Python framework called Django, which is anything but complex.  It's widely used, uses standard the implementation mechanism, namely the WSGI protocol, which works in the Apache web server via mod_wsgi, and any other modern web server.  "self-developed" is irrelevant-- everything is self-developed at some level.  I definitely want to have the code be available to everyone, even publicly.  I published the code from the previous rewrite in an SVN repository, for the record.

TritonKeyboarder wrote…
So I think you can't say that nothing has happened since your last visit.

You are right-- I don't mean to say that nobody's done any work.  I'm saying that we've only treated symptoms, instead of solving the problem of a wobbly PHP foundation.

TritonKeyboarder wrote…
But first we need to know exactly what the community would love to see, I think Mud's statement at least. After receiving it we can discuss a new concept. But be aware there are hundreds of people with hundreds of opinions about how to place a website forum like BandAMP in the right corner.

I know, and my goal is to replicate the existing site first, preparing for customization, but not changing anything yet.  Members of the community don't have a fair opportunity to have their feedback implemented unless with fix the foundation first.
#57April 6th, 2011 · 07:11 PM
125 threads / 31 songs
1,409 posts
United States of America
PS- is anybody trying to contact Mud?  It has been suggested numerous times in this thread, but I certainly wouldn't know how to go about doing that.  Any of the three admins would be great candidates for that.

Despite sentiments that the server shouldn't change, I think it's an established case that the current server is outdated a bit.  Not that it causes the site to slow down, but from a technical angle, it's old, making it hard to use new web tools.  It wouldn't need to happen right away or anything, but it's very realistic to consider a new server location.  (kings pointed out that a lot of traffic comes out of the US, but I don't care where it's physically located.)  Paying Mud the money to keep the current one would be less than great, because it means we'd keep the current (old) server and all of its frailties.

I think the golden question for Mud is as follows, because I think that any other questions will be answered in his reply:

Before the end of the year comes around, are we free to transplant the site elsewhere?  Mud turned it over to "us" a few years ago-- how long is that leash?
#58April 7th, 2011 · 06:40 AM
185 threads / 27 songs
2,769 posts
Germany
After all words are spoken until now I am going to contact Mud at short sight.
Maybe I can get him to attend this conversation anyways.
#59April 7th, 2011 · 01:32 PM
340 threads / 59 songs
4,344 posts
United Kingdom
TonightsLastSong wrote…
PS- is anybody trying to contact Mud?  It has been suggested numerous times in this thread, but I certainly wouldn't know how to go about doing that.  Any of the three admins would be great candidates for that.

Despite sentiments that the server shouldn't change, I think it's an established case that the current server is outdated a bit.  Not that it causes the site to slow down, but from a technical angle, it's old, making it hard to use new web tools.  It wouldn't need to happen right away or anything, but it's very realistic to consider a new server location.  (kings pointed out that a lot of traffic comes out of the US, but I don't care where it's physically located.)  Paying Mud the money to keep the current one would be less than great, because it means we'd keep the current (old) server and all of its frailties.

I think the golden question for Mud is as follows, because I think that any other questions will be answered in his reply:

Before the end of the year comes around, are we free to transplant the site elsewhere?  Mud turned it over to "us" a few years ago-- how long is that leash?

Yes it is probably so that the server is still being run by a steam powered gnome but the gnome is ok and we have plans to relieve him ... when the time is right ... and he knows it ....  so dont you worry about him.
#60April 7th, 2011 · 08:17 PM
125 threads / 31 songs
1,409 posts
United States of America
I'm really not trying to be a jerk, but what exactly is that plan?  We're paying a lot of lip service to allowing the community to decide, but so far it's unclear to me what the "reliving plan" is, and who decided it.

Lest anybody forget, we've all got an investment in the site, including me, despite whatever dislike anybody has for me unexpectedly rocking this boat.
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