If only it were that simple, pX. At heart I agree with you. I was 17 when punk hit big in the USA and I was all about it , the aesthetic and the messages.
However , a lot of people of that era, including John Lydon, abused the forum punk provided and used the copout of it being "art intended to engage a polemic" to hide behind.
The problem with that particular cop out is that anything goes. If I write a song called "Kill The Niggers" or "The Jews had it coming in '39" I can generate just as much discussion on the amp as Stuffx did, no problem (There would be people who would agree with such craziness, too.). it doesn't take a genius or a really insightful "messenger" to start an argument., just pick a topic.
Just starting a discussion is easy.but I have to be prepared to counter the criticism I generate, otherwise it's meaningless bullshit.
The idea that Stuffx wrote this song to start a dialogue about US foreign policy is crazy. She's just pissed at the US and can't find the words to say why exactly. Which is exactly what eventually turned me off to punk. Lotsa blowhards starting arguments they lack the wit to finish.
Anger is great. It motivates a lot of what we do. Blind anger is just stupid. I LOVE pissing people off about the world as I see it vs. the world as they see it. I just try not to leave it at that. I'm all for stirring up some shit, but I'll see it through
Still, after all that, I still really like this song. It's just plain old good in a high energy-of-youth way.
I may not agree with what you say,Stuffx, but who the fuck cares? Keep that shit coming, baby!
However , a lot of people of that era, including John Lydon, abused the forum punk provided and used the copout of it being "art intended to engage a polemic" to hide behind.
The problem with that particular cop out is that anything goes. If I write a song called "Kill The Niggers" or "The Jews had it coming in '39" I can generate just as much discussion on the amp as Stuffx did, no problem (There would be people who would agree with such craziness, too.). it doesn't take a genius or a really insightful "messenger" to start an argument., just pick a topic.
Just starting a discussion is easy.but I have to be prepared to counter the criticism I generate, otherwise it's meaningless bullshit.
The idea that Stuffx wrote this song to start a dialogue about US foreign policy is crazy. She's just pissed at the US and can't find the words to say why exactly. Which is exactly what eventually turned me off to punk. Lotsa blowhards starting arguments they lack the wit to finish.
Anger is great. It motivates a lot of what we do. Blind anger is just stupid. I LOVE pissing people off about the world as I see it vs. the world as they see it. I just try not to leave it at that. I'm all for stirring up some shit, but I'll see it through
Still, after all that, I still really like this song. It's just plain old good in a high energy-of-youth way.
I may not agree with what you say,Stuffx, but who the fuck cares? Keep that shit coming, baby!
alerion wrote…
Lotsa blowhards starting arguments they lack the wit to finish.
Right! Look, that's a part of the punk process yeah, but the arguments were started based on an intuitive feeling. Lacking the wit to finish - well that's just individual growth, but the argument is out there for the more mature to deal with.
As you say, high energy in a youthful kind of way. The more you grow up the easier you navigate through life and deal with all it's inequities, generally taking crap for granted, losing sight of how much B/S there's actually being played at the general public. The youthful may not have the wit to fully comprehend this yet (will anybody ever fully comprehend anything btw) or find sufficient wording to make sophisticated statements, but atleast they still, intuitively, identify it's "wrong". Thus they can confront the more responsible, in this case via punk music. Thus, punk has by all means the right to exist yeah!
and um, well statements like "the jews had it coming", I think a whole lot less people will intuitively come up with something like that. Though I agree there are unfortunate souls who would
- not much of a comparison with US politics though, I hope!!!
BandAmp is no platform for politics but for MUSIC. If Stuffx wants to make some punk music (where the music is the expression of anger) then she's welcome. If only she wants to start a political thread on this site then I dont know she is on the right site. Its not that worth at.
PX, I DO NOT like political discussions in any forum belonging to BandAMP. That's the last word from me to this nice thread. But if I read any other political discussions on this site be sure that I stand at my point of view.
PX, I DO NOT like political discussions in any forum belonging to BandAMP. That's the last word from me to this nice thread. But if I read any other political discussions on this site be sure that I stand at my point of view.
| Sorry. I'll shut up now |
PuppetXeno wrote…
alerion wrote…
Lotsa blowhards starting arguments they lack the wit to finish.
As you say, high energy in a youthful kind of way. The more you grow up the easier you navigate through life and deal with all it's inequities, generally taking crap for granted, losing sight of how much B/S there's actually being played at the general public. The youthful may not have the wit to fully comprehend this yet (will anybody ever fully comprehend anything btw) or find sufficient wording to make sophisticated statements, but atleast they still, intuitively, identify it's "wrong". Thus they can confront the more responsible, in this case via punk music. Thus, punk has by all means the right to exist yeah!
This is a great point. i actually thought i was being hard on Stuffx because now I'm OLD, and I'm (statistically) one of the people she's yelling at, not with.
on the other hand, i stopped taking Punk seriously as a movement, platform, whatever when i was 20. Even then i recognized that it was more attitude than substance, which is cool as long as you acknowledge it. I'm not saying she shouldn't post stuff like this, I'm not even saying she's wrong. I'm just saying that when you start some shit like this, the people on the other side of the argument are going to utterly dismiss you, blow you off or ignore you if you let your song (a whole 2 verses) talk for you. History will repeat itself
Every politically motivated write from Woodie Guthrie to Dylan to Sting, has commented outside their songs to elaborate their point.
You wrote:
"and um, well statements like "the jews had it coming", I think a whole lot less people will intuitively come up with something like that. Though I agree there are unfortunate souls who would - not much of a comparison with US politics though, I hope!!!"
Visit the Mid-East right now and you'll find a whole bunch of people who would intuitively come up with a statement like that.
20 years ago in South Africa or 50 years ago in the U.S., a song called "Kill the Niggers" could have been a cult hit. Scary but unfortunately true.
BTW your english is excellent.
We here SUCK at foreign languages and I'm always humbled when i visit the Amp.
Oh... i just.... Loved u'r music.
yeah......
well i was putting off giveing a review to this, but i read the song lyrics and then the reviews after first listening to the song. i must tell you that ive had you on my favorits list for quite sometime now. but i was reall hurt by this song. have you ever lived in america? sure its not all we make it out to be and its not gods green garden like alot of people think. and sure we do stupid stuff to. but what contry doesnt?
you point the fingure at us, and even though you dont say americans but america, you mine as well be saying americans because we made this country the way it is today. you act like we're so horrible and such bad people. yet TK was right. other contries tell people where to live what to wear what to worshipo who to pick as rulers (if they even get that choice) and what men and weman can and cant do. you think we're bad because we fight over stupid things. but what about the peole who let stupid things just stay and turn a blind eye to it? americans arnt great. plain and simple. we shouldent be put on a pedlestool, or be thought of as a poster child for freedome. but we shouldent be condemed for that same freedome.
also, i agree, i you are going to make such a bold song with such stinging word you had better research first and then make sure all facts are in order. or you could end up saying some thing eaqually foolish as us amerans seem to be from your point of veiw.
"i''ld rather live in slavery than in america."
that was stupid. plain and simple. just stupid. because i doubt youve ever had to live in slavery and ever will. there for, who are you to compare us like that? and who are you to tell us to "fuck off" when your country could be even worse than ours? or your naboring counrtry or a country in the next content?
i guess the reason i was so hurt by this was simply because you have never lived here. there for all you know is what you read in the news papers and wach on tv and all that "news worthy" crap they feed you like vitamens. what you dont see are the good things we do to. we help people when they need it. we have schools and other things that we make free to most any one. jobs are comming from every where to help unemployed people. sure those things look so small compared to the crap we've pulled, but there still there. yet no body wants to point those things out. and why?
because then people would have to admit that were ok. not great but ok. and what happens if that happens? ignorent chldren (and adults) such as your self have nobody to blame for the proublems in their lives. they have nobody to tell to "fuck off" and nobody to say "WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOUR DOING YOU IGNORENT LITTLE SH***?"
and thuse you would not have a half baked punk song.
true punk is in your face outa this world crap on every one and every thing encluding the mother type of music. but at least they no what their talking about. you put togehter a couple of hurtfull lines called it a punk song said their you go with a stomp that said "lets see who gets pissed" and didnt even bother to check out info or any thing
like i said
half baked
this barly kept me awake
-paper cut doll
well i was putting off giveing a review to this, but i read the song lyrics and then the reviews after first listening to the song. i must tell you that ive had you on my favorits list for quite sometime now. but i was reall hurt by this song. have you ever lived in america? sure its not all we make it out to be and its not gods green garden like alot of people think. and sure we do stupid stuff to. but what contry doesnt?
you point the fingure at us, and even though you dont say americans but america, you mine as well be saying americans because we made this country the way it is today. you act like we're so horrible and such bad people. yet TK was right. other contries tell people where to live what to wear what to worshipo who to pick as rulers (if they even get that choice) and what men and weman can and cant do. you think we're bad because we fight over stupid things. but what about the peole who let stupid things just stay and turn a blind eye to it? americans arnt great. plain and simple. we shouldent be put on a pedlestool, or be thought of as a poster child for freedome. but we shouldent be condemed for that same freedome.
also, i agree, i you are going to make such a bold song with such stinging word you had better research first and then make sure all facts are in order. or you could end up saying some thing eaqually foolish as us amerans seem to be from your point of veiw.
"i''ld rather live in slavery than in america."
that was stupid. plain and simple. just stupid. because i doubt youve ever had to live in slavery and ever will. there for, who are you to compare us like that? and who are you to tell us to "fuck off" when your country could be even worse than ours? or your naboring counrtry or a country in the next content?
i guess the reason i was so hurt by this was simply because you have never lived here. there for all you know is what you read in the news papers and wach on tv and all that "news worthy" crap they feed you like vitamens. what you dont see are the good things we do to. we help people when they need it. we have schools and other things that we make free to most any one. jobs are comming from every where to help unemployed people. sure those things look so small compared to the crap we've pulled, but there still there. yet no body wants to point those things out. and why?
because then people would have to admit that were ok. not great but ok. and what happens if that happens? ignorent chldren (and adults) such as your self have nobody to blame for the proublems in their lives. they have nobody to tell to "fuck off" and nobody to say "WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOUR DOING YOU IGNORENT LITTLE SH***?"
and thuse you would not have a half baked punk song.
true punk is in your face outa this world crap on every one and every thing encluding the mother type of music. but at least they no what their talking about. you put togehter a couple of hurtfull lines called it a punk song said their you go with a stomp that said "lets see who gets pissed" and didnt even bother to check out info or any thing
like i said
half baked
this barly kept me awake
-paper cut doll
Hey Papperdoll, I can't believe how many spelling/grammar mistakes you made for being an americam...it's prompt me write a song called 'fuck american english'...ha...I'm only joking.
Anyway...the girl hit the nail didn't she? on the commercial side she wouldn't have had such a response had she written a song called Latvia fuck off.
Anyway...the girl hit the nail didn't she? on the commercial side she wouldn't have had such a response had she written a song called Latvia fuck off.
yeah well ike i said we shouldent be mad poster children, we make mistakes to, even if the mistakes are big or small like gramer skills. i didnt say we were smart or any thing.
alittlepaperdoll wrote…
yeah well ike i said we shouldent be mad poster children, we make mistakes to, even if the mistakes are big or small like gramer skills. i didnt say we were smart or any thing.
btw how would you have reacted if she had put " united kingdom" fuck off?
Punk wasn't invented in the UK. At least it wasn't called that.The term was coined here in the US, the bands about which it was coined were American and that was in the mid-'60s, i believe. They were the progenitors of the bands in the next decade that made the biggest splash but, even then, the majority of seminal punk bands was American.
Granted, it took off in the UK big-time in the '70s but, this is where my national pride comes in;
WE invented it, YOU perfected it, and we both commercialized it to the point of ruin.
Granted, it took off in the UK big-time in the '70s but, this is where my national pride comes in;
WE invented it, YOU perfected it, and we both commercialized it to the point of ruin.
"WE invented it, YOU perfected it, and we both commercialized it to the point of ruin."
I don't really know were the term "punk" was coined to define that type of music, it may have to do with the original english word punk meaning thug, or youngster petty criminal.
And as far as I know it started over here as a reaction against symphonic, progresive middle class rock/pop popular in early 70s, musically speaking. And anti establishment, politics lyrically speaking, which were mainly anarchical.
All that sounds more english to me than american, anyway I'd give you the benefit of doubt as I haven't done a proper research to refute your statement completely.
As for commercializing it to the point of ruin comes from the US I must say.
I don't really know were the term "punk" was coined to define that type of music, it may have to do with the original english word punk meaning thug, or youngster petty criminal.
And as far as I know it started over here as a reaction against symphonic, progresive middle class rock/pop popular in early 70s, musically speaking. And anti establishment, politics lyrically speaking, which were mainly anarchical.
All that sounds more english to me than american, anyway I'd give you the benefit of doubt as I haven't done a proper research to refute your statement completely.
As for commercializing it to the point of ruin comes from the US I must say.
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