ouch i just read that and i didnt think i had sounded so pissy... sorry every one =)
paper girl
paper girl
| Rap.... hmmmm.... |
This discussion has been done so many times before....
I say Rap is music... and I can do it... see http://forum.bandamp.com/Audio_Review/3050.html
was done in 5 minutes on the fly.... then just added the reverb to the vocals, and a couple more synth effects as well as slowed down the beats a bit... This was done with Audacity... and nothing else... no extra stuff... no FL studio to lay out the beats... I used a drum track from my Gdec amp... and I rapped the beat myself... freestyle... to let the Rappers know that Gansta rap isn't welcome here... I agree rap is music.. if done right, and done as truly an expression of themselves... but not as an expression of hatred and violence... 60 percent of the "gansta" rap out there is a bunch of people who never truly lived the lifestyle they speak of... those that do, promote it like it is something to strive toward...
When I grow up I wanna be a gansta nigga wit attitude.. I wanna bust a cap in some fool, and smack my ho around...
as for Hip hop, well that is something different... see http://forum.bandamp.com/Audio_Review/1914.html
anyway...
Jim K
I say Rap is music... and I can do it... see http://forum.bandamp.com/Audio_Review/3050.html
was done in 5 minutes on the fly.... then just added the reverb to the vocals, and a couple more synth effects as well as slowed down the beats a bit... This was done with Audacity... and nothing else... no extra stuff... no FL studio to lay out the beats... I used a drum track from my Gdec amp... and I rapped the beat myself... freestyle... to let the Rappers know that Gansta rap isn't welcome here... I agree rap is music.. if done right, and done as truly an expression of themselves... but not as an expression of hatred and violence... 60 percent of the "gansta" rap out there is a bunch of people who never truly lived the lifestyle they speak of... those that do, promote it like it is something to strive toward...
When I grow up I wanna be a gansta nigga wit attitude.. I wanna bust a cap in some fool, and smack my ho around...
as for Hip hop, well that is something different... see http://forum.bandamp.com/Audio_Review/1914.html
anyway...
Jim K
| what tha F%@#& wrong wit rap? |
hey i make hip hop/ rap beatz and i DJ as well... hip hop has changed the way people look and think about music, more than any other genre even... and i believe there should be more on here.. but i do have to agree with you on country music... i mean i live in texas... and i cant stand country music!! im not sayin itz bad, i mean the people who make it are still very talented, they just should focus their skills on other things like hip hop, rock, or electronic music....... anywayz... keep pimpin
~tha squizz
www.myspace.com/djtsquared
~tha squizz
www.myspace.com/djtsquared
| re: what tha F%@#& wrong wit rap? |
djtsquared wrote…
. hip hop has changed the way people look and think about music, more than any other genre even...
Actually that is incorrect... Blues has changed the way people look and think about music more than any other Genre...
djtsquared wrote…
but i do have to agree with you on country music... i mean i live in texas... and i cant stand country music!! im not sayin itz bad, i mean the people who make it are still very talented, they just should focus their skills on other things like hip hop, rock, or electronic music.......
Funny, that is what Country fans say about Rappers.. hahaha....
JimK
| what tha F%@#& wrong wit rap? |
JimkDaAdtman wrote…
djtsquared wrote…
. hip hop has changed the way people look and think about music, more than any other genre even...
Actually that is incorrect... Blues has changed the way people look and think about music more than any other Genre...djtsquared wrote…
but i do have to agree with you on country music... i mean i live in texas... and i cant stand country music!! im not sayin itz bad, i mean the people who make it are still very talented, they just should focus their skills on other things like hip hop, rock, or electronic music.......
Funny, that is what Country fans say about Rappers.. hahaha....
JimK
yeah idk... blues is good and all.. (i mean i own every stevie ray vaughn album) but i say hip hop is more influential because the genre is les than 30 years old and has outsold any blues album by millions or more....... and if u want to be that way jim.... the genre that has changed the way people think about music is actually the music mad in th frikkin rennaissance because thats basically as influental as you can get....
| Do not confuse sales |
Do not confuse sales with influence.... they are WAY seperate...
influencial music is music that as you said changes they way people look at music...
Rap/hip hop has not done that... though it remains to be a high seller, it has nothing to do with changing minds...as most people even fans of rap and hiphop do not even classify it as music, they call it it's own thing... a sound...but not music.. of course music is just that, an orginaztion of sound.. therefore it truly is music, but it has not had much influence in the music world.... noone in other genres has been influenced by rap and hiphop, and created hybrids until very recently... people like Big and Rich, Cowboy troy, they are starting to combine country and rap, it is called Hick hop.. funny that the genre you hate the most and the one you love the most are the ones that are combining... but again this all started within the last 2 years... until then nothing... as for renaissance music, well, that is something again entirely different, and although it did in fact change musical thinking, it was what happened after the renaissance period that had more effect on music, and it's path it would follow over the next few generations.. and in the late 1800's, there was another shift, which became basically the birth of the blues as we know it, around Mississippi and Louisiana a new sound was arising, it was the use of flatted third, fifth and seventh in the major scale, this is what became the blues.... THe blues in turn became Rythm and blues,Jazz, Rock and roll, rockabilly, 3 different folk styles was born from it, bluegrass was a combination of celtic folk, and blues, hip hop, rap, and country are all also born fromthe blues that came about in the late 1800's early 1900's... Bob Dylan(called the most influencial person in music) and Willy Nelson(also one of the most influencial people in music) were not just influenced by blues, they helped change music for generations... So, to repeat myself, blues is the most influencial music genre... it gave birth to all music of the 20th and 21st century.. Even Popular crooners were influenced by Blues, Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, and jazz greats, Loius Armstrong, would not have been the same without the blues...
Jimk
influencial music is music that as you said changes they way people look at music...
Rap/hip hop has not done that... though it remains to be a high seller, it has nothing to do with changing minds...as most people even fans of rap and hiphop do not even classify it as music, they call it it's own thing... a sound...but not music.. of course music is just that, an orginaztion of sound.. therefore it truly is music, but it has not had much influence in the music world.... noone in other genres has been influenced by rap and hiphop, and created hybrids until very recently... people like Big and Rich, Cowboy troy, they are starting to combine country and rap, it is called Hick hop.. funny that the genre you hate the most and the one you love the most are the ones that are combining... but again this all started within the last 2 years... until then nothing... as for renaissance music, well, that is something again entirely different, and although it did in fact change musical thinking, it was what happened after the renaissance period that had more effect on music, and it's path it would follow over the next few generations.. and in the late 1800's, there was another shift, which became basically the birth of the blues as we know it, around Mississippi and Louisiana a new sound was arising, it was the use of flatted third, fifth and seventh in the major scale, this is what became the blues.... THe blues in turn became Rythm and blues,Jazz, Rock and roll, rockabilly, 3 different folk styles was born from it, bluegrass was a combination of celtic folk, and blues, hip hop, rap, and country are all also born fromthe blues that came about in the late 1800's early 1900's... Bob Dylan(called the most influencial person in music) and Willy Nelson(also one of the most influencial people in music) were not just influenced by blues, they helped change music for generations... So, to repeat myself, blues is the most influencial music genre... it gave birth to all music of the 20th and 21st century.. Even Popular crooners were influenced by Blues, Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, and jazz greats, Loius Armstrong, would not have been the same without the blues...
Jimk
| re: Do not confuse sales |
JimkDaAdtman wrote…
Do not confuse sales with influence.... they are WAY seperate...
influencial music is music that as you said changes they way people look at music...
Rap/hip hop has not done that... though it remains to be a high seller, it has nothing to do with changing minds...as most people even fans of rap and hiphop do not even classify it as music, they call it it's own thing... a sound...but not music.. of course music is just that, an orginaztion of sound.. therefore it truly is music, but it has not had much influence in the music world.... noone in other genres has been influenced by rap and hiphop, and created hybrids until very recently... people like Big and Rich, Cowboy troy, they are starting to combine country and rap, it is called Hick hop.. funny that the genre you hate the most and the one you love the most are the ones that are combining... but again this all started within the last 2 years... until then nothing... as for renaissance music, well, that is something again entirely different, and although it did in fact change musical thinking, it was what happened after the renaissance period that had more effect on music, and it's path it would follow over the next few generations.. and in the late 1800's, there was another shift, which became basically the birth of the blues as we know it, around Mississippi and Louisiana a new sound was arising, it was the use of flatted third, fifth and seventh in the major scale, this is what became the blues.... THe blues in turn became Rythm and blues,Jazz, Rock and roll, rockabilly, 3 different folk styles was born from it, bluegrass was a combination of celtic folk, and blues, hip hop, rap, and country are all also born fromthe blues that came about in the late 1800's early 1900's... Bob Dylan(called the most influencial person in music) and Willy Nelson(also one of the most influencial people in music) were not just influenced by blues, they helped change music for generations... So, to repeat myself, blues is the most influencial music genre... it gave birth to all music of the 20th and 21st century.. Even Popular crooners were influenced by Blues, Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, and jazz greats, Loius Armstrong, would not have been the same without the blues...
Jimk
hmmm, well, rap has certainly influenced the way people look at music, big time. to start with, there have been hybrids of rap and rock from day one. look at the Beasty Boys who put lots of rock in their raps and Rage against the Machine who actually rap their lyrics to their punk songs. They did this in the 80s already. And I recall certain RHCP tunes to have rapped lyrics on there "Give it away now"... And maybe you remember Run DMC vs Aerosmith "Walk this way" - a song which brought the genres closer together. And later on there was Ice-T's Body Count project (started 1990) - raps to thrash metal - etc... etc. I believe the genre "rapcore" exists, which wikipedia describes as "a musical genre that fuses the instrumentations and the vocal elements of punk, heavy metal, hip hop, and sometimes of funk. The term is also used to refer to the substyles of rap-rock and rap-metal." And ofcourse there is a genre called "nu metal" with dudez like Korn and Limp Bizkid and Linkin Park... Pretty big names .... to a younger generation
Plus you mustn't forget that the polarization effect of rap music (and other urban styles) is an influence too. Some artist try hard to avoid sounding anything like it, thus they delve deeper into the traditional ways of songwriting. Some people go as far as to deny rap the status of it being "music" which is probably as silly as it could possibly get.
Truth... Influence to other music styles? Well, it blends into the existing styles, even yours truly pumped out this one, so it's more a "worming it's way in" instead of truly changing the face of all music in general, because many a genre remains completely untouched by it (but no non-classical genre has remained untouched by Blues in this light) - however, urban style music has been making a HUGE impact on an entire generation... And if the attitude that comes with it is a tolerant one, then this could be very promising for the future...
| re: Read carefully |
The Beastie Boys bill themselves as Rappers, not so much anything else... and though they have some rock and roll mixed in their beats, I believe it to be rap, and I am a huge Beastie Boy fan... As for Korn, Limpbizkit, RHCP, and such... Years ago, I was doing something similar to it, a spoken word, vocal flow.. similar to rap, but not really rap, more hard core punk-ish... Back in the 60's and 70's George Jones was doing something similar in his Country songs.. in the 50's it was Perry Como, and Mel Torme doing a similar vocal flow.... so this is nothing new, and not really rap... Rap has a much more beat driven flow, whereas I think you will find in most of RATM and RHCP it is definitely more melodic, Korn is much more of an attitude, kind of yelling at you... and Linkin Park, well, they cross genres for sure, but again, my point is that Rap is not the single most influencial music as the Squizz suggests... It has barely begun to become an influence in any shape or form...
If you re-read my post you will see I did not say it HAS NOT influenced, I said it IS NOT the MOST influencial music...and has only recently become influencial at all....
JimK
If you re-read my post you will see I did not say it HAS NOT influenced, I said it IS NOT the MOST influencial music...and has only recently become influencial at all....
JimK
Well I have to add to this,,hip hop and rap have a huge following and lots of culture. Hip hop has defined how we talk,dress, and even brought some major issues to everyone's attention. Hip Hop is a lifestyle. Now I think musically the blues has influenced more of course(pretty much any kind of music derived from the blues)But as far as influence on people I would have to say hip hop and rap for sure.There's no denying hip hop and rap.Even the ones who are talking about bustin caps, music is self expression and an escape....Also look at the movies....Rap star after rap star on the big screen, look at commercials....rap jingle and dancing after rap jingle.Hip Hop and rap are everywhere and are not going no where so everybody get used to it.
Ps what's the difference between
1. someone rap'n about booty and being hardcore 2. all my fav. rock bands talkin about girls in many metaphorically ways and parading around beatin there chests like cave man
Ps what's the difference between
1. someone rap'n about booty and being hardcore 2. all my fav. rock bands talkin about girls in many metaphorically ways and parading around beatin there chests like cave man
I said it IS NOT the MOST influencial music...and has only recently become influencial at all....
JimK
Only recently? Do you remember Blondie Rap'n? Also Puppet named off a handful of artists as well, maybe not exactly rap but the influence is there no doubt. Further more I believe that if rap and hip hop were dominated by WHITE artists there would be allot less people calling it crap and maybe considering it music. That is not directed at anyone in this forum, just an overall assumption.
JimK
Only recently? Do you remember Blondie Rap'n? Also Puppet named off a handful of artists as well, maybe not exactly rap but the influence is there no doubt. Further more I believe that if rap and hip hop were dominated by WHITE artists there would be allot less people calling it crap and maybe considering it music. That is not directed at anyone in this forum, just an overall assumption.
BasketCase wrote…
But as far as influence on people I would have to say hip hop and rap for sure.
Well, again, that is not influence that we are discussing.. You should go back and read my post... I am talking about influencing the way people look and think about music.. not the way people idolize certain stars.. that is way different...
BasketCase wrote…
Ps what's the difference between
1. someone rap'n about booty and being hardcore 2. all my fav. rock bands talkin about girls in many metaphorically ways and parading around beatin there chests like cave man
The maturity level required to understand the metaphors... One has to reach a certain age(emotional not chronological) to understand what is being said in most of the rock and even other songs... But if the language is very blunt and vulgar, even the younger children understand what is being said, and they are not emotionally ready to understand how to processthat information.. therefore, they see it as being a lifestyle to live, not a lifestyle to abolish.. I don't believe anyone here really wants to smack women around, and shoot people,get shot and stabbed, and drink and smoke all day, not work, and go to prison on a regular basis... Think about it... This is what is happening though... These little kids see this as the only way to live.. to be cool.. to not sell out... and this is why this way of life still continues, and is growing... instead of shrinking, you see these urban areas getting worse... and I can tell you it isn't because of the economy getting worse... it is because the kids have little to no respect for other people... I see it every day... I live in such an area... I grew up in such an area... I was such a kid... until I woke up... unfortunately most kids do not wake up to this, and they end up going to prison one too many times, or worse, killing someone or getting killed... I am not one who is not speaking from experience on this... I live it....
For anyone to say it is a lifestyle, is to say they believe it to be something to glorify.. and believe me it isn't.. walking around with your pants down, and disrespecting other people, esp. women, this is not something one should aspire to...
JimK
BasketCase wrote…
Only recently? Do you remember Blondie Rap'n? Also Puppet named off a handful of artists as well, maybe not exactly rap but the influence is there no doubt. Further more I believe that if rap and hip hop were dominated by WHITE artists there would be allot less people calling it crap and maybe considering it music. That is not directed at anyone in this forum, just an overall assumption.
Again, I said, this style of vocal flow goes back to the pre 1900.. it is nothing new, it is not influenced by rap and hip hop.. Rap and hip hop didn't hit the scene until the 70's, and even then was very unknown until the 80's.... As for what Wikpedia said about the rap hip hop genre and the cross overs, I do agree with some of it, but even still when you consider what it has become, and what it is meant to be, it is a shame... It is meant to be expression of ones self, and instead is becoming a contest to see who can be the most vulgar and disrepectful...
I agree with allot of what your saying but not all rap and hip hop send negative messages and glorify violence. I guess we are comparing apples and oranges here.I was reading over all the posts and I just had to post something.As far as lifestyles go I'm referring to the culture and the positive aspects in it . As hardcore as Tupac was he also had allot of positivity and knowledge to share.
For anyone to say it is a lifestyle, is to say they believe it to be something to glorify.. and believe me it isn't.. walking around with your pants down, and disrespecting other people, esp. women, this is not something one should aspire to...
JimK
People have the freedom to dress as they wish and as far as disrespecting women that's not ONLY in rap its everywhere. Do you think singing about and treating women like pieces of meat and conquests is respectful? I know you don't it's just an example. I didn't realize it when I was younger but as grew older and paid more attention to my favorite artists lyrics and videos I was sickened. I'm not arguing the fact there is allot of negativity in some rap artists lyrics and attitudes but they are not alone. Every aspect of life/music has the good and bad it's up to us to filter it for ourselves and our children.I never intended to start a debate, just thought I should add my 2 cents or 50 in this case.
For anyone to say it is a lifestyle, is to say they believe it to be something to glorify.. and believe me it isn't.. walking around with your pants down, and disrespecting other people, esp. women, this is not something one should aspire to...
JimK
People have the freedom to dress as they wish and as far as disrespecting women that's not ONLY in rap its everywhere. Do you think singing about and treating women like pieces of meat and conquests is respectful? I know you don't it's just an example. I didn't realize it when I was younger but as grew older and paid more attention to my favorite artists lyrics and videos I was sickened. I'm not arguing the fact there is allot of negativity in some rap artists lyrics and attitudes but they are not alone. Every aspect of life/music has the good and bad it's up to us to filter it for ourselves and our children.I never intended to start a debate, just thought I should add my 2 cents or 50 in this case.
ShaggE wrote…
Not all rap is blunts, 40's and bitches, though. The kind I do, horrorcore, often deals with more serious subjects, like loss, religion, etc. Sometimes it degrades into an outright lyrical gorefest, but for the most part, the messages are very deep and thought provoking.
I'd love to hear that one day
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