LOL! half the sources quoted at that link are DEA agents?  Bad Breath? From smoking weed, WTF are you even talking about, PX? That is some of the stupidest sh*t I've ever heard! Dont even get me started on your global warming opinions! Get educated people! Quit spitting propaganda that your grandparents learned from their parents! Nothing you guys are saying is new... its all the same ol' pot is evil bullshit! Except you guys keep backing off... It used to be...weed will make you jump out of windows... Weed will make you a crack head! Weed will make you stupid! Have you seen the antipot commercials lately? They're like BE CAREFUL... there is a possibility that weed could make you tired and hungry! LOL! This sh*t is a joke... you have no facts to back up your claims other than the original bullshit spouted back in the 20's...

You seriously need to tone down, MAP. What are you so worked up about? Lighten up.. And I don't mean lighten one up.... First off, I have a personal history of drug use, so I can speak from experience. Second, you can actually buy weed at coffeeshops in the Netherlands, because in our little country we have long recognized that tolerating soft drugs is the best way to keep most people from becoming too interested in trying "harder" stuff, and it's easier to regulate and monitor the actual intake and interest of the populace in marijuana and the like. And FYI not every politician is very happy with this situation, because the Netherlands are kind of the ONLY COUNTRY IN EUROPE who does this, and there are often voices in the newspapers about cancelling this whole toleration policy - backed up with research, statistics etc. So if you think I'm uninformed, you are misinformed!

And I'm very happy for you that you have found a balance in your drug use, but weed does make ME tired and hungry and that is NO bullshit.

It seems to me that your grasp of reality is severely distorted.

YES, weed does make one tired and hungry... my point is that they keep backing off of their hard line about marijuana... once upon a time weed was supposed to make you deranged and apt to leap from tall buildings... now they have fallen back to the much more realistic "weed makes you tired and hungry" that was my point...

...and while I understand that no one is going to agree all the time... The dutch model is being considered in many places all over the world and is even being considered here in America by some people in a position to make such a thing a possibility.  And if all you can say after smoking a joint is that you are tired and hungry then were is the argument here?

Weed is nothing akin to any other drug other than it alters your state of mind... Perhaps smoking isnt the best way to go about intake but again,,, if thats your best argument...  I have smoked weed since 17 and yes I moved on to harder drugs... you know why... because weed is illegal! I was forced to move in the same circles as the people who deal hard drugs because that is what prohibition has done... dealers are dealers whether they be weed dealers, crack dealers or both... I haven't looked at the numbers lately in Holland but i'm willing to bet that they support my statement... When you aren't subjected to hard drugs then you don't voluntarily gravitate magically towards them...  You guys have to come up with something more concrete than... YOU MIGHT GET CANCER?  YOU MIGHT HAVE LUNG ISSUES?  I challenge anyone to question my ability to learn! 
It just sounds tired these days...

The truth is you really dont know... maybe you were affected adversely by your encounters with marijuana...again, I know people who cant handle cold medicine... but you can't just make blanket statements based on anecdotal evidence... There have been no long term studies until very recently on the affects of long term use... (yes those back your claims of possible lung issues) but the facts that are quoted most often are the ones that originated under Harry J. Anslinger, stuff that he contrived to further his political agenda... nothing based on fact in even the most remote way...

what?  if you read that link you will see that on the pros side almost ever post is a Dr. of somekind, If you look at the con side ...some are Dr.s and some are not. It should support your theory that marijuana has beneficial purposes..  

     One of the reasons I posted it was to show that .. if PHD (experts I guess) can't agree on the pros and cons  arguing here is not going to change anyones minds either.

  One of the main reasons that I am for the legalization of Marijuana is this. There are a lot of people that feel that it relaxes them (it make me sleep). So they smoke when they get home from work.Then because of the friggin insurance companies and uptight politicians. They get called in to pee in the cup on a random drug screen for work...yup you guessed it.  they come up dirty on the screen and now they have no job (has not happened to me but I know several people that it has happened to).  They have kids and now are out looking for a job but have the dirty drug screen on the record so they can't get quality work any more...Now why does someone that smoke a little weed have to have this happen . When I personally know of a well paid CEO of a major warehousing firm not only drinks and drives every night, but drinks during the day at work and drives. Yet he is one of the same people that will fire someone for lighting one up at home just cause it shows up in the drug screen..   IT is stupid  and makes no sense.  plus  there are a lot of people in jail in this country  just for having a little weed in their posession. (which is very stupid). IT is time they legalized it imho.

I'm not making a really hard case because I can't be assed, honestly. I was just trying to put my 2 cents in this whole ordeal by trying to lighten things up a bit. I know exactly what you mean about the dealers in the illegal circuit - there is no boundary between soft and hard drugs with dealers. I experienced it myself when I was in Berlin in the 90's with a friend, when we were trying to score some hashies. We were offered almost everything but hashies, we couldve gotten coke, speed, lsd, xtc, heroine easily but finding a true pot dealer was not as easy at all.

That's why I personally do support the dutch model, and it's a dam shame they banned mushrooms recently... We owe that to tourists who are unresponsible and do not know how to actually enjoy mushrooms... so they combine it with heavy drinking or smoking pot and yeah THEN you go completely delusional and into a bad trip... and this HAS caused people to jump off bridges, or kill their dogs... and stuff.

So if one can use responsibly, then I see no problem. Same counts for alcohol. But who wants to spend all his days in a haze? You'll miss out on stuff.... You won't be as alert... You won't be as energetic... Life kicks more ass when you're wide awake -- in a natural state! That's the only message I personally have, I really don't care about the rest.

Sometimes, given the right conditions, I do take a puff or two when offered, just to get the mild high. But it takes days for the last effects to ebb away! And that's why I don't use more often than two or three times a year. The effects have an exhausting effect in the long run, both mentally as physically. I remember that well from my early twenties when I was more into it. I don't think I suffer any consequences right now from my heyday of substance experimentation - except for a load of experiences and memories of trips and things that made me look at the world from perspectives I couldn't have imagined otherwise... or could I?

Wow! I have to say I really resent the implication that If I feel passionately about something it must mean I'm a f*n addict... I hate statements of ignorance and yes I said HATE ! Just because you deal with ignorance very very passively, I deal with it head on... Again... Do we need to take a test or something? Somebody else call me stupid... please.

Again out of context minds...Not stupid at all you know that...your getting all bent out shape dude..Whats up?You seem to miss the statement to each its own, what applies to you is to you..As you express your views I express mine...

and besides when did i call or implied you are an addict..No one is talking about you minds we are just talking about pot issues..

Ok I'm not loosing  a friend on this I'm out...Pot ain't worth it..

I deleted all my previews post ,I don't even know why I posted on this,..I'm here for the music and I should remain in that direction..

I only ask one thing, many here might not have an issue but I have..So how do you think this makes me feel about myself..Think on that please?

4 pages SASQUATCH MAN!!!!!!! nice.

the ganja conronicals!

-sarah

Who cares...
Its not a competition...

um......

 

I don't think I read anyone callin' you stupid.  & hey......someone used to call me "stupid" all the time.  It's a REAL sore spot with me & gets my back up.

I work for the Liquor Control Board of Ontario.  As a Product Consultant.  Now,  something has always irked me.......in that the Wine industry is very glamourous.  It has "elitism"  written all over it, at times.   First growth's, chateau's,  limited runs, stellar Vintage years, wine cellars, wining & dining......having to serve varietals in certain glasses (shiraz.....cab sauvignon.....pinot noir  etc.)

I work with some VERY snobbish people.  (some......not ALL.)

& some (NOT ALL) of those VERY snobbish people......have a VERY BAD drinking problem.  I have had the pleasure (?) to witness some of my customers SH!TFACED on the products i sell them.  it isn't glamourous AT ALL.

It has always seemed a little hypocritical to me.........to legally continue to sell to them.  sigh.

I guess what i'm saying here....is that there is a conception of a pot smoker that is embedded in society, (the strung out, loser addict).......that really IS unfair.

I've never had a toker throw up on my shoes. 

Now.....SOME people i know....smoke too much.  Some smoke too much pot.  Some people EAT too much.  Some people drink too much coffee.

sigh........what the hell do I know?  I'm just bumbling along.....trying to be kind to people.  trying to do the best i can & learning from my mistakes.

k?

mb

Yes Yes, my apologies for being so sensitive.  I have argued this argument so long and the argument is always the same...  I dont mean to offend or to read more into things that are there...  I guess I just attributed the attitude to you guys that I usually get when having this argument in person... That condescending look that says "You must be an idiot"... again I apologize...

Ironically within 2 years of this article being published WW2 prompted the scramble to grow hemp but quick , between the U.S Department of Food and drug Admin and the Dupont mob prior to that it was viewed as competition to Rayon .
In a nut shell hemp could save the depressed economies of the world , decrease dependancy on Oil and steel , concrete 6 times lighter than the regular stuff twice as strong.
The Queensland govt is now finally experimenting with the regulated growth of hemp for just these reasons.
Airbus is looking at a new similar weed as a source of jet fuel.
Write your congressman.
NEW BILLION-DOLLAR CROP
Popular Mechanics

February, 1938

Note: There was so little public attention and notice to the need for a ban on marijuana, or the resulting legislation (Marihuana Tax Act of 1937), that the editors apparently did not realize that it had already been outlawed when they published this article.

AMERICAN farmers are promised a new cash crop with an annual value of several hundred million dollars, all because a machine has been invented which solves a problem more than 6,000 years old. It is hemp, a crop that will not compete with other American products.

Instead, it will displace imports of raw material and manufactured products produced by underpaid coolie and peasant labor and it will provide thousands of jobs for American workers throughout the land.

The machine which makes this possible is designed for removing the fiber-bearing cortex from the rest of the stalk, making hemp fiber available for use without a prohibitive amount of human labor. Hemp is the standard fiber of the world. It has great tensile strength and durability. It is used to produce more than 5,000 textile products, ranging from rope to fine laces, and the woody "hurds" remaining after the fiber has been removed contain more than seventy-seven per cent cellulose, and can be used to produce more than 25,000 products, ranging from dynamite to Cellophane.

Machines now in service in Texas, Illinois, Minnesota and other states are producing fiber at a manufacturing cost of half a cent a pound, and are finding a profitable market for the rest of the stalk. Machine operators are making a good profit in competition with coolie-produced foreign fiber while paying farmers fifteen dollars a ton for hemp as it comes from the field.

From the farmers' point of view, hemp is an easy crop to grow and will yield from three to six tons per acre on any land that will grow corn, wheat, or oats. It has a short growing season, so that it can be planted after other crops are in. It can be grown in any state of the union. The long roots penetrate and break the soil to leave it in perfect condition for the next year's crop. The dense shock of leaves, eight to twelve feet above the ground, chokes out weeds. Two successive crops are enough to reclaim land that has been abandoned because of Canadian thistles or quack grass.

Under old methods, hemp was cut and allowed to lie in the fields for weeks until it "retted" enough so the fibers could be pulled off by hand. Retting is simply rotting as a result of dew, rain and bacterial action. Machines were developed to separate the fibers mechanically after retting was complete, but the cost was high, the loss of fiber great, and the quality of fiber comparatively low.

With the new machine, known as a decorticator, hemp is cut with a slightly modified grain binder. It is delivered to the machine where an automatic chain conveyor feeds it to the breaking arms at the rate of two or three tons per hour. The hurds are broken into fine pieces which drop into the hopper, from where they are delivered by blower to a baler or to truck or freight car for loose shipment. The fiber comes from the other end of the machine, ready for baling.

From this point on almost anything can happen. The raw fiber can be used to produce strong twine or rope, woven into burlap, used for carpet warp or linoleum backing or it may be bleached and refined, with resinous by-products of high commercial value. It can, in fact, be used to replace the foreign fibers which now flood our markets.

Thousands of tons of hemp hurds are used every year by one large powder company for the manufacture of dynamite and TNT. A large paper company, which has been paying more than a million dollars a year in duties on foreign-made cigarette papers, now is manufacturing these papers from American hemp grown in Minnesota. A new factory in Illinois is producing fine bond papers from hemp. The natural materials in hemp make it an economical source of pulp for any grade of paper manufactured, and the high percentage of alpha cellulose promises an unlimited supply of raw material for the thousands of cellulose products our chemists have developed.

It is generally believed that all linen is produced from flax. Actually, the majority comes from hemp--authorities estimate that more than half of our imported linen fabrics are manufactured from hemp fiber. Another misconception is that burlap is made from hemp. Actually, its source is usually jute, and practically all of the burlap we use is woven by laborers in India who receive only four cents a day. Binder twine is usually made from sisal which comes from Yucatan and East Africa.

All of these products, now imported, can be produced from home- grown hemp. Fish nets, bow strings, canvas, strong rope, overalls, damask tablecloths, fine linen garments, towels, bed linen and thousands of other everyday items can be grown on American farms.

Our imports of foreign fabrics and fibers average about $200,000,000 per year; in raw fibers alone we imported over $50,000,000 in the first six months of 1937. All of this income can be made available for Americans.

The paper industry offers even greater possibilities. As an industry it amounts to over $1,000,000,000 a year, and of that eighty per cent is imported. But hemp will produce every grade of paper, and government figures estimate that 10,000 acres devoted to hemp will produce as much paper as 40,000 acres of average pulp land.

One obstacle in the onward march of hemp is the reluctance of farmers to try new crops. The problem is complicated by the need for proper equipment a reasonable distance from the farm. The machine cannot be operated profitably unless there is enough acreage within driving range and farmers cannot find a profitable market unless there is machinery to handle the crop. Another obstacle is that the blossom of the female hemp plant contains marijuana, a narcotic, and it is impossible to grow hemp without producing the blossom. Federal regulations now being drawn up require registration of hemp growers, and tentative proposals for preventing narcotic production are rather stringent.

However, the connection of hemp as a crop and marijuana seems to be exaggerated. The drug is usually produced from wild hemp or locoweed which can be found on vacant lots and along railroad tracks in every state. If federal regulations can be drawn to protect the public without preventing the legitimate culture of hemp, this new crop can add immeasurably to American agriculture and industry.

"Popular Mechanics Magazine" can furnish the name and address of the maker of, or dealer in, any article described in its pages. If you wish this information, write to the Bureau of Information, enclosing a stamped, self-addressed envelope.

never said it was......
just think that its funny that there is almost 4 pages of ganja talk on here.

Minds....skin up and chill out for fucks sakes !   
                      O! you have!

Did you write all that stuff on the second page ? Wow!
Haven't you got anything better to do ?

Wake and Bake ... love it !

Minds : PX and Marino are both ex 'users', you cannot expect them to agree with you in any way , it's the psychology of keeping it in check , someone who has set a goal for them selves to not do something cant say to them selves and others that they must do it!
But this does not say I disagree at all with what you guys say though....and I still get stoned ...... and I cant say that I'd rather not be, it's the tobacco that's addictive , the weed is habitual.....and just nice  
Though I suppose being also quite a 'full on' person most times , I get stoned to chill out and 'listen to my self' yet too much stoned becomes apathy, and that is one I hate! But still find my self there often enough.

I'd say this thread should be about 'choice and character' as these are the things that make us do what we do, and the consequences of getting stoned are different for each one depending on 'choice and character'.

Maybe they were mixing things up back then , in the 20's, as a lot of people do today, when they made those posters with a man turning into a 'devil' with the words "Drugs will turn you into a beast" written underneath?
Opium was also around those days as coke is today , on all levels of society, and they are called 'opium laws'.
Opium can 'bring out beasts' or 'smack heads' in other words, my weed lets me see them for what they are, as 'smoky' as some people might call this view of reality!
Weed just happens to fall under the opium laws where as alcohol and tobacco don't, they stem from a different source.
 
I haven't felt PARANOIA since I left Britain about 20 years ago, going up to the mountains to score was always a very hair raising experience!
I now live in a country that is infamous for its gedoog beleid , figure it out your self! This one might help.
And as PX mentioned i think, it is unique in it's set-up.

@marthamaymoo : I have had two stoners chuck on my feet!!!!! well splatters anyway!
One was a friend I'd just introduced the 'neat pipe' to, I had to drag him out side when he turned yellow, it was while he was sitting on the pavement going "kings ye basterd" that he chucked the contents of his stomach right there next to him.
The second time was in a squat in London city , I'd bumped into some Aussi dude in the kitchen , he was waiting to score from the girl up stars who wasn't in, I told him to come back the next day , she'd be in and if he'd scored he was welcome to come up to the top floor for a bong. He did come around the next day, in a really glary Welsh shirt !!!! (I'd told him I was from Wales) and I found this odd to start with, we had a bong and chilled out, after a short while he pointed to a bowl I had under a leak in the roof and said "Do you mind if I use your bowl?" , I said "Sure, carry on" a little puzzled. He picked up the bowl calmly and proceeded to threw up in it quite ferociously...... to my surprise!
He did apologise and helped clean the rest of the mess and then we probably had another bong !!!
Well I know I did anyway!
Haven't touched bongs for many many years.....bad stuff.....See! 

ahhhhhhh......bongs.  i remember them.......kinda....

(i confess.....i DO have a little pipe that a friend carved for me......with a little bud in it....strictly for emergencies only.....)

I'm  gonna see if I can work "Do you mind if I use your bowl?" into a conversation today!  lol

mb