Yeah, I would like to see downloading an option on the part of the artist. I know it cant be hard. Myspace has it as an option when you upload music so why cant we? I agree with Oldies in that we are way too laid back about our music here. We, as artist, should have more control over what happens with our stuff. Ive actually started selling copies of songs Ive posted here but if anyone ever found out they could just come here and download it for free, I would be sh*t out of luck. Which in turn makes me reluctcant to turn anyone else on to this site. Im excited about the idea of a poll. It time to start making some changes around here and with some of the conversations ive had ,with fellow members, I know there are several that agree! JIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you're uploading your music to the Internet, and someone really wants your song, the lack of a download isn't going to stop them. If you're worried about the music here being a lost stream of revenue, you should take it down now. If I submit this site to Digg, it gets popular, then your music is going to be downloaded. Nevertheless, I'd still like the option. And no, it's not that hard.
I agree, however, that the review situation is a problem. To quote Marino:
I completely disagree with this viewpoint. In fact, I think it's one of my major gripes here. I would trade every single 20 character "review" saying "good man this was cool" (OK, so that was 18 letters) I have ever gotten in all my songs for one more of the truly useful and balanced critiques I've received.
And no, I don't have time to review, because I have been too busy. I sadly have to resort to shorter reviews now because I don't have 20 minutes to spend on each review I do anymore. I used to have time over the summer to put an incredible amount of effort into a critique, and I loved that I received, on more than one occasion, PMs saying "thank you for the review". Warm, fuzzy feeling I guess. I don't want to be an ass, but I can count the people here who I think review properly---rather, who have reviewed one of my songs properly---on one hand. What's funny is, I think you know who you are. Those were the reviews which I read and learned something from.
I think that Garageband has the right idea: to get the critique, you have to contribute. I personally don't think that 5 reviews per upload is too much to ask, especially if the reviews are going to be the going rate of 25 characters. I would love to see 15 or something crazy.
At the end of the day, I don't matter in the grand scheme of things. Enough people have to want this, and I don't think that is true. Hopefully people will come around, and maybe with the great changes mud is making around here, something can get done.
I'm not making personal attacks at any one, and I really hope no one gets too upset about this.
I agree, however, that the review situation is a problem. To quote Marino:
The I've been busy excuse is a bit dated,you have time to post,you have time to review in my opinion.Even if its 3 songs a week its a least something.
I completely disagree with this viewpoint. In fact, I think it's one of my major gripes here. I would trade every single 20 character "review" saying "good man this was cool" (OK, so that was 18 letters) I have ever gotten in all my songs for one more of the truly useful and balanced critiques I've received.
And no, I don't have time to review, because I have been too busy. I sadly have to resort to shorter reviews now because I don't have 20 minutes to spend on each review I do anymore. I used to have time over the summer to put an incredible amount of effort into a critique, and I loved that I received, on more than one occasion, PMs saying "thank you for the review". Warm, fuzzy feeling I guess. I don't want to be an ass, but I can count the people here who I think review properly---rather, who have reviewed one of my songs properly---on one hand. What's funny is, I think you know who you are. Those were the reviews which I read and learned something from.
I think that Garageband has the right idea: to get the critique, you have to contribute. I personally don't think that 5 reviews per upload is too much to ask, especially if the reviews are going to be the going rate of 25 characters. I would love to see 15 or something crazy.
At the end of the day, I don't matter in the grand scheme of things. Enough people have to want this, and I don't think that is true. Hopefully people will come around, and maybe with the great changes mud is making around here, something can get done.
I'm not making personal attacks at any one, and I really hope no one gets too upset about this.
avinashv wrote…
If you're uploading your music to the Internet, and someone really wants your song, the lack of a download isn't going to stop them. If you're worried about the music here being a lost stream of revenue, you should take it down now. If I submit this site to Digg, it gets popular, then your music is going to be downloaded. Nevertheless, I'd still like the option. And no, it's not that hard.
I agree, however, that the review situation is a problem. To quote Marino:The I've been busy excuse is a bit dated,you have time to post,you have time to review in my opinion.Even if its 3 songs a week its a least something.
I completely disagree with this viewpoint. In fact, I think it's one of my major gripes here. I would trade every single 20 character "review" saying "good man this was cool" (OK, so that was 18 letters) I have ever gotten in all my songs for one more of the truly useful and balanced critiques I've received.
And no, I don't have time to review, because I have been too busy. I sadly have to resort to shorter reviews now because I don't have 20 minutes to spend on each review I do anymore. I used to have time over the summer to put an incredible amount of effort into a critique, and I loved that I received, on more than one occasion, PMs saying "thank you for the review". Warm, fuzzy feeling I guess. I don't want to be an ass, but I can count the people here who I think review properly---rather, who have reviewed one of my songs properly---on one hand. What's funny is, I think you know who you are. Those were the reviews which I read and learned something from.
I think that Garageband has the right idea: to get the critique, you have to contribute. I personally don't think that 5 reviews per upload is too much to ask, especially if the reviews are going to be the going rate of 25 characters. I would love to see 15 or something crazy.
At the end of the day, I don't matter in the grand scheme of things. Enough people have to want this, and I don't think that is true. Hopefully people will come around, and maybe with the great changes mud is making around here, something can get done.
I'm not making personal attacks at any one, and I really hope no one gets too upset about this.
Avi i think you misunderstood,your are a pretty active members and we all get busy and take breaks.My view point addresses something different more like a hit a and run sort of speak
but thx for the quote I feel special now! 
I would also like to address the "if someone wants to download your music they will". Thats true, but not everyone has the know how to do that. And it will atleast make it more difficult than just clicking a button labled "download me, Im free". And just a quick jibe, Avi..... In the time it took you to write the two paragraphs above you could've reviewed atleast 3 songs! LOL! But on a serious note, you are telling me that you couldnt review 3 songs a week!!!! Are you kidding? You are telling me you dont have 5 mins to spare every other day? Im sorry, I know you are busy but that is pretty extreme.
I disagree with a mandatory review-per-week thing. I've been less active for a while because of things, following the system I would've been kicked off bandamp a few months back. That's by all means, utterly ridiculous. Besides, how about people going on holidays for a few weeks? What if someone wants to go backpacking for a few MONTHS? Bad idea! Let's remain casual about memberships. Maybe, just maybe, and only if it's REALLY necessary, we could "kick" members who have been inactive for like 6 months AND never added much in the first place.
Another bad idea is the non-download for non-members. What if I want to share my music with someone I just met, I just give the bandamp address and allow the download.. Wouldn't want to require the person in question to set up an account. Seriously.
Good idea: the optional download. Maybe make it like this: option 1= download is free, 2= download allowed for members only, 3= music is streaming only.
I really wouldn't want to see bandamp turn in an "exclusive" site that puts lots of requirements to it's members at all.
Another bad idea is the non-download for non-members. What if I want to share my music with someone I just met, I just give the bandamp address and allow the download.. Wouldn't want to require the person in question to set up an account. Seriously.
Good idea: the optional download. Maybe make it like this: option 1= download is free, 2= download allowed for members only, 3= music is streaming only.
I really wouldn't want to see bandamp turn in an "exclusive" site that puts lots of requirements to it's members at all.
PuppetXeno wrote…
I disagree with a mandatory review-per-week thing. I've been less active for a while because of things, following the system I would've been kicked off bandamp a few months back. That's by all means, utterly ridiculous. Besides, how about people going on holidays for a few weeks? What if someone wants to go backpacking for a few MONTHS? Bad idea! Let's remain casual about memberships. Maybe, just maybe, and only if it's REALLY necessary, we could "kick" members who have been inactive for like 6 months AND never added much in the first place.
I too would disagree with a mandatory per week count, or two week, If that was the case, Spoon would have been booted out a loong time ago.. She Joined in 2003, but didn't become active until 2006. Then she hosted the 2007 North American Bandamp get together at her home. So, I think that is a BAD idea... I like Marino's thinking that in a week, you probably could at least do 3 reviews, no matter how busy you are, This is true.. But at the same time, yes, there are those who honestly just can't for a while, but they also aren't uploading music or anything to the site..Some folks will also do this little trick, The 2 word post good stuff, or this rocks, then they post on their own song a separate post for each post they have recieved, to comment back to them, this counts towards their requirement, so now they can upload much more stuff. eventually they are barely contributing to onyones stuff, but their own songs. I am not sure if it's really feasable to filter out posts to one's own song or not. .. I am in total agreement about the optional download, that would be nice. As for the non-member download, this is interesting. On one hand, I like the idea of limiting all downloading to members only, not so much to make it exclusive but just to make them work for it a bit, and hopefully, they will become a full contributing member of the site through this. Streaming should ALWAYS be for all eyes, and, we can even have a download of the week type thing, for all people, even nonmembers.
And as for Polling, We were discussing this in Chat last night. And yes I am in agreement. If it wasn't for Polling, we wouldn't have JBP, so Polling is a great country, and the polish people are very nice, so I don't want to hear any polish jokes, like "How many polish people does it take to screw in a lightbulb" Two, the trick is getting them inside the lightbulb" or anything like that...... OK, seriously, Yes, polls to vote on the upgrades should be very easy to add on to the system. And would be a good idea, this way it becomes the site as a whole that decides the fate of many of the design ideas...
JimK
Marino: I know you weren't directing that at me personally, but I was using my own example to refute your point.
Minds: No, I sometimes don't have time for three reviews a week, because, as I said, I don't like to spend such little time on my reviews. 15 to 20 minutes is a long time, and with the little free time I have, I like to spend it on other things, as much as I love this place.
I agree about the weekly review requirement being a bad idea---I just see it getting out of hand with people getting kicked and what not. I think what will happen again is that this will just remain ideas?
How about creating some sort of incentive system? People can vote monthly on a bunch of things like:
- Best new song of the month
- Best review of the month
- Best new lyrics of the month
I guess that covers everything? Winner could get a customized Bandamp gift or something like from the following:
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/customize/product.aspx?clear=true&no=37
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/customize/product.aspx?clear=true&no=203
etc. etc.
Depending on how much it works out with and shipping costs etc. I'd be willing to sponsor the first month's prizes. I know pap had a similar prize idea, but I don't know if that is going to happen, and furthermore, no one has to commit to manual labor here.
Minds: No, I sometimes don't have time for three reviews a week, because, as I said, I don't like to spend such little time on my reviews. 15 to 20 minutes is a long time, and with the little free time I have, I like to spend it on other things, as much as I love this place.
I agree about the weekly review requirement being a bad idea---I just see it getting out of hand with people getting kicked and what not. I think what will happen again is that this will just remain ideas?
How about creating some sort of incentive system? People can vote monthly on a bunch of things like:
- Best new song of the month
- Best review of the month
- Best new lyrics of the month
I guess that covers everything? Winner could get a customized Bandamp gift or something like from the following:
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/customize/product.aspx?clear=true&no=37
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/customize/product.aspx?clear=true&no=203
etc. etc.
Depending on how much it works out with and shipping costs etc. I'd be willing to sponsor the first month's prizes. I know pap had a similar prize idea, but I don't know if that is going to happen, and furthermore, no one has to commit to manual labor here
.Well, I certainly like where this conversation is going. Im glad that jim is onboard with the polling. (funny guy, Jim) I think if we are truly to adopt the spirit of 'community ownership' then it is mandatory that we are able to hear from the community. That way no one is accused of power trips, etc. I, also, dissagree with the review per week idea. (See PuppetXeno's reasoning). If we want to clean house a bit, we could even do something like no activity per so many months. Like no post no reviews for a year or 6 months. I like Avi's idea of an incentive program. But I think the most effective way to increase reviews (which is what started all this talk) is required reviewing per upload (and maybe download, as well). Make post on your own music not count as well as any reviews lower than say 15 words or so?
Yeah, I think that increasing the amount required to upload more music is the way to go and maybe a 50 or 100 character minimum for posting in the audio forum?
I think that way, it's best for everyone. It's not forcing anyone to review, but if they want to post, they have to contribute their opinions.
Also, I have a suggestion to the "reviewing your own songs don't count" idea. On Newgrounds, the author of the song can't review their own music, but they can write responses to each review. Also, leaving a review requires leaving a rating out of 10, which everyone can see. maybe that can be applied here, when you review, you can't continue until you vote, and once you do, everyone can see your vote.
I think that way, it's best for everyone. It's not forcing anyone to review, but if they want to post, they have to contribute their opinions.
Also, I have a suggestion to the "reviewing your own songs don't count" idea. On Newgrounds, the author of the song can't review their own music, but they can write responses to each review. Also, leaving a review requires leaving a rating out of 10, which everyone can see. maybe that can be applied here, when you review, you can't continue until you vote, and once you do, everyone can see your vote.
i think..if your going to review at least do it without the pressure of doing it! 
cos its really important to give an honest review instead of a quicky..lol..but anyhows..i am on here in spits and spurts.. but when am on... am on...!!!! and i love to listen and rate and give credit to where its due....but... on the other hand...minds..your right... babysitting song service lol.. 
I actually thought tho.. i had to review a certian amount of songs before i could upload mp3s anyway.. am i right there then?
cos its really important to give an honest review instead of a quicky..lol..but anyhows..i am on here in spits and spurts.. but when am on... am on...!!!! and i love to listen and rate and give credit to where its due....but... on the other hand...minds..your right... babysitting song service lol.. I actually thought tho.. i had to review a certian amount of songs before i could upload mp3s anyway.. am i right there then?Only the first time, Pagan. 3 reviews for the first upload and I dont think it would be excessive to simply make it 3 reviews per upload on every upload. Reviews make the world go round on this site, So I dont think it too much to ask that if you want to be part of a reviewing site community that you review as well. I agree with the pressure comment. There shouldnt be any pressure and there wouldnt be. Dont review dont upload (or download), simple pimple!
yes point taken! thanx for telling me about the first time on reviews..thing is..i like to review.i like to comment it helps to bring the best out of us.i am on your side completely..reviews are important to us ..its a community on here after all..so 3 reviews per upload...minimum..id go along with that!...yeahhhhh..xxxx
I am dumbstruck! Even as this convesation persist people drop off their stuff to be babysat! I almost want to call them out by name but that wouldnt be very civilized would it. I hope those of you that do read this and take it to heart will inflict the only means of checks and balances we have and simply refuse to review those who dont join in the community spirit. I know that sounds harsh but I know from talking to you that several of you agree. With the coding up in the air right now (from what I can tell) there is no telling when any new ideas will be implemented so until then its up to us to keep things fair. If I didnt have the reviews to back up what I say I would shut straight up, but I have atleast 7 reviews to 1 upload! I dont ask that people do that much but come on! DO ONE! CAN WE GET A 1 TO 1 RATIO, ATLEAST!?
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