hey guys, sorry i've been inactive the last few weeks.. life is kicking my trash   school, work, etc... trying to find a way to balance it all and still participate around here frequently.

anyway, Jim, when you quoted some of the fees figures, you said:


may i inquire about that whole limit of 5 transactions?  the account can only receive 5 transactions a year?? i must be wrong, but someone please clear that up for me.

i'll be donating very soon.  i feel bad for not having realized this thread was here until just now, since it was Denis and I who were all like "heck yes i'll donate" when we were discussing it in the forum.

The 5 transactions per year pertain to a different type of account and different type of transaction, I didn't copy the whole thing, just the small section that  had the fees we have to pay..  But, I couldn't get JUST our fees, so I had to put it all in.. I stated above we are a Premier Business account, so that is the ONLY part that applies to us! 

 We have no limits on receiving money. And hopefully we can get some programming done soon...

 
              JimK

I didn't realize the thread was here either. I just donated. Least I could do considering what a great site this is and how much fun I've had here over the last  couple years....I hope to make more time in the future for this place, especially if we can get a tighter sense of community.

just donated .
..hope it helps


the fish

it cant help...
wanted to do some source review... (dont need any fee to do this.)
but how is life? my account is disabled.... so what the hell. 
why donation?
what are the costs for any programmer? thought we had enough of them. where are they?
what are the costs for site hostings? any idea to bring bandamp to an other server hosted by the members?
availability? high availabilty? mirror servers?
I can send an invoice if needed 

Mud still maintains the costs of the server and such-- that's not much off a problem.  he's financially stable enough to take care of it (and then some).  sure, we've got programmers like crazy on this site, from c++, java [script], php, perl, python, etc, etc... the problem is the time required to be dedicated to the programming.

personally, i think the whole thing would get done faster if it were to be rewritten, rather than trying to spend all the time deciphering the current site, which is truely in "code"   Nobody can figure it out very well.

We spend the time to record, but we don't spend the time to reprogram.  Donations aren't magically going to make the programming get done--- that's not the point.  We wanted to have some sort of fund to give a lttle edge to those who could sacrifice some time for programming.  Small fund, small incentive, but hey.

I propose that we redisign the site, peice by peice... the whole thing at once it kind of hard.  Ignoring the "requested" features, like sticky threads, there are some other things that need to be taken care of... the song uploading script for instance... it nosedives on anything with non-alphanumeric characters, yet you're able to edit the song's title after it's uploaded and put in single quotes (and such) without problem...  there are plenty of things that functionally would boost the site's ease of use.

I simply don't have time enough to dedicate to it, to work with anybody else... i've got too much on my plate.  Once summer comes around, I could probably get my hands dirty, but there's no way I could tackle it by myself.

dont talk about it... do it!

and thats what the site's people problem is..... everyone talks... but nobody does

And I dont talk any longer...

edit:
maybe I do not understand this way of life, simply I am german

nah, i agree entirely.  if i could do something, i would!  as i specified, i can't right now.  not enough time to devote to it.  my other (frankly) more important responsibilities need to be taken care of first.

i encourage all others to "do" though, as much as they honestly can.

good things will never come about without hard work.

i should mention that i think that Jim has been learning PHP in the meantime, so that he can be more capable of "doing" what needs to be done.

sometimes, there are just things that need to be done first , so that the larger goal can be accomplished.

what things are need to be done first and what is the larger goal?

no answer? ok I appreciate it.

yeah... I'd like to know what these donations will be invested in aswell. I mean I want to read about solid, real plans... Because as far as I know, any attempt to even SET *real goals* were dismissed by weak and vague arguments that never intended to put in any alternative *stronger* goals and ideas at all. If we want to improve the site, we need to cut out all the excess talk and analysing and take our chances by cutting things short and go for what we think have the best chances. Hence the earlier idea of setting up a board of directives; consisting of those few who have been very close to the community for a long time, who have made a difference before, so can be granted the authority to decide over setting a course for the community.
Apparently no-one was interested enough to pursue this idea at all for there is no such board (atleast I haven't been informed, ....) I still think it should be there. BandAMP needs an active management with transparent, publically displayed goals...  else the whole donation thing isn't making any sense at all.

yours truly
PX (still a mod)

Perhaps you should have replied to the post I made in the Admin forum in November about the board of directors if you were interested in pursuing that idea. I assumed you had no interest in it since you did not respond to that post or the emails I sent you about it also sent in november. Since then I have been trying to get a php programmer to look at the site, along with working 60 hours a week, and have started trying to learn PHP myself, but havent had enough time to really work on that. I haven't seen you around much either PX and without you responding to my messages, I thought perhaps you had gone into seclusion to try to find your muse once more since you were having such struggles with your music.. I am sorry if you are feeling left out of the loop, but I have tried repeatedly to keep you in the loop without repsonse. As for The question about the donations, I think it has been made quite clear that the purpose for the donations is to help pay a programmer to clean the code up and add two audio forums, one for collaboration and project pieces that are unfinished, and one for cover tunes, to get them out of the main audio review forum. If possible I would also like to have the battles fixed to a different style of voting and tabulating, one that based simply on the number of votes you receive from Active members. And make it so that if you are a new member you cannot vote for a song. The battle is not as major a concern as the rest though. If we can just get the system streamlined and add those two forums we should be a stronger, and less buggy site. I think just with that alone we should see growth in the memberships. Then we can also tackle the chatroom. Though it does work well, it could be better, and be updated more quickly when a user leaves the room, instead of timing out. If I manage to find a programmer that is willing to do it for free, simply out of the goodness of his/her heart, then the money will be moved over to a fund either to help cover Mud's cost on serever space/bandwidth or to a fund to cover prizes for monthly or weekly drawing for members. Where a name can be randomly generated by the active members that month. Or we can do a raffle type deal, where everyone who want to be in the drawing would submit their name and $1 and they will be entered. Then the drawing will be held with only those names. But this would be a decision that would be made later, and by the site as a whole, not by me. These are only my suggestions for what to do. My ideas...  If you like them, cool, if not, that's cool too, have any other ideas?

   I am doing allot of asking, and using allot of time to get this going, but if you don't like the direction it's going, then let me know. I can't read minds. I make a point of trying to be on here everyday, and try to respond to every question. Triton, I apologize for not getting to this one quicker, but I have been in contact with you on skype since you posted this question, and you did not mention it. I missed it here, but working all week  and weekend I didn't have as much time as I needed. I have spoken to two programmers who might be able to do something, I am probably going to tell the one no, because he wants $500 just to look at it and give us his evaluation. The other is very busy at work on a large project, that should end up in March, so if he frees up he will take a look for free, and then let me know what if anything he would charge..  I think he might even do the programming for free, but I can't be sure until he looks at it... As for the donations recieved thus far, they are in an interest bearing Paypal account, it is a business account, and the total right now is $245.10 This is from 6 members. That is pretty awesome. The donations were started because of a request by more than 6 members. And the 6 members that donated, only 2 of them were in the group that has asked me to start taking the donations. I had 24 requests to start taking the donations. I would also like to use donation funds to help offset the cost of get togethers, though that idea was not taken well by a couple members because not all members would be able to go. This is sort of true, I can understand that. So I would ask that if you wish to submit a donation for the get together please put that in the comment of the donation submission. YOu can even opt for a split donation, part to the site, part to the get together. I just think it would help allot if we could help make it easier for the members to go to the get together if say, we rented camp sites, or maybe just supplied the food and some beverages, this way more people could afford to go, and would WANT to go. I mean think about it, if a bunch of us chip in together, we could rent a whole bunch of campsites, or even just a bunch of pizza for the festivities... That would be less of a burden on the host, and the members who have to drive there, and drive back home, or as in Tobin's case, fly there.. He flew half way around the world to be there, and that was wonderful. And Spoon put her home up to us, and if we could have had some money, she would't have had to buy the hamburgers and hot dogs, and such. It would have been covered by the site.

  Well, anyway, I just wrote a novel.. sorry... I just don't understand what you all want me to do I guess.

             JimK

Ok let me keep this short, I haven't had any messages from you JimK, you couldve pm'd me and you haven't, but that's not that important. Truth is I did move away from BandAMP, because it took ages to load once I had logged in, and navigating was a terrible pain because of this extreme slowdown. This seemed to have been caused by the number of posts I made over the years, and was temporarily fixed, but the slowdowns seem to re-occur every now and then. I did *see* the post you made in the admin section, but I couldn't click and load the page, as it took ages and threw me off the site every time I tried to access it. It, or any other page other than the forum overview page. Don't ask why, I'm not a novelist like you. So that's not really a valid argument, you have my email address aswell so you could've also sent me a email, which you haven't. But again, being in or out of any type of loop is not the issue here. Believe me if I say I'm much more aware of what's been going on recently than you seem to think I am.

The issue I'm addressing - is the Clear Plan Yay or Nay. I've always stated I'm willing to donate, and I'm surely impressed by $214.10 from 6 members, but personally I am not donating until I'm sure about what the money is going to be spent on. Get togethers are very cool but there's life outside the digitized channels... And the life outside it will always take priority. Even though the reasons may not always be as much fun as such a unique event would be, they are still overbearing.

I we can compile a *true* and *realistic* list of things we need for the site (if anything), it would be clearer and more motivating for anyone to donate anything. Even if it's just Mud's daily cigarette and a can of beer - clearly the man deserves those - I'd say OK I'll drop a few bucks every month. But if it's as vague as "maybe I can find a programmer, and what about a get together next year?" ... it's not going to happen...

 List of Clear Plans. That's my message. Mud needs smoke, Bandamp needs juice - there are expenses, and they need to be covered. For that I'm willing to donate. The expenses need to be defined correctly, that's the step we need to take right now.

So let's put attention to that right now.

You obviously did NOT read my post

   I DID EMAIL YOU you did NOT respond. But, I also stated the money is to go to A PROGRAMMER! I am but ONE Person. Perhaps YOU might dop better at finding a programmer PX. I haven't found ANYONE who is willing to do it for less than $500 to get started. That being said, $214 is not $500. Clear plans are as stated above, CLEAN THE CODE UP AND ADD TWO FORUMS.  The rest was as stated above, MY IDEAS, not plans or anything. Just my IDEAS and as stated, it is up to EVERYONE to decide that. We have tried numerous times to gather a list and instead of gathering a list of just the things that we need, we get a bunch of people bickering over "This has been done before, and nothing ever happens from them. The reason for this is exactly what is happening here, instead of everyone here working together to find a programmer, it is left up to one person to do it, and then that one person is then berated for his efforts. I have spent more time on this than I have on my music. I truly haven't worked on anything solid in over 8 months. I have a new saxophone and clarinet that I cannot learn to play because I have no time. I have talked to a total of 14 different prospective programmers. This isn't a if I can maybe finda programmer. This is a major undertaking. I am not going to pass the main server access of Bandamp off to just any guy who says "Hey, I can program PHP".. I need to see proven work, I need to know that they are trustworthy enough, and are going to do what it takes to make this site right. Because this site deserves no less. I will tell you this, Mud is one of the ones who has donated to the site. So, I think he is in agreement with the plans that have been stated above, as well as numerous times in other threads and pm's and emails. But PX, I did Email you 5 times in November, I am not sure why you did not get those emails, or perhaps they just got missed.. I don't know, All I know is I did not PM you because you stated numerous times you weren't loggin in to Bandamp much lately, and I would check, there were times you hadn't logged in for more than a week. Why PM you, you didn't answer the admin post, I figured you weren't really active. That was WHY I sent the emails. No response to them either, so I figured you were burned out. I could understand that. It was all cool. That was why I didn't pursue the Board any further. I didn't want to do that without you. We need to be together on as much as possible with that stuff. BUT, I must stand up and say that this was a SITE decision to take donations, and is for the benefit of the SITE.. We WILL find a programmer, the only if , is IF he/she will charge us to do the work. It would be wonderful to find one that wont. That way the money can be used for other things. As for your statement about the get together donations, and there being life outside the digital world, This makes no sense to me, so please explain it, because sure there is life outside the digital world, so, are you saying we should not have get togethers? That is what it sounds like... If it isn't then what is the objection to accepting donations to help pay for things at the get togethers? If you don't want to go, don't go, if you don't want to donate, don't donate.. It's that easy... If you want to donate to the site, and not the get togethers, cool, that's fine too. It is so simple. The money donated for the programming, as I stated above, will go to a programmer, unless he/she doesn't want it. In which case it will be rolled over to another site function that will benefit ALL members. No money will be given for get togethers unless designated BY THE DONATER as being for get togethers. Does that clear that up?

BTW,

  Puppet, dude, You know I love you man... But I can't understand the post man..