#1May 17th, 2006 · 04:19 AM
21 threads / 16 songs
49 posts
Peru
Music form
one of my biggest problems about music is the form I have to give to my music. I know there is thousend of forms you can use, but i dont wanna just pick a form and use it, I wanna feel the form, I want the form to say something I want to say. Let's see an example: House of the rising sun goes like this:

Part A: A minor, C major, D major, F major
Part B: A minor, C Major, E major
Part A: A minor, C major, D major, F major
Part C: A minor, E major, A minor

If you listen to it, you will see how circular it is. Is like a cuestion and an answer, is something like (I know I can't really translate music into words but let mi try it)

Why does cats exist... = Part A
?... = Part B
Cats exists... = Part A
because goad created them. = Part C

I know it sounds stupid, it always going to sound stupid when you try to put music into words, but here you can see how simple, how obvious is musical form. You don't need much theory to see it, you can just feel it. So what I try to do is to make a song that has the same principle, but longer and more complex. Something that when is over you can say, "men, this is really over, there is nothing else to say". You may say now "hey, don't be so hard with your self, just let the music be". I know. I'm not trying to be hard with my self, is just that when I start making a song, I don't want to make a collage of parts without sense,  or to make a pop song by using the form "Intro, theme, chorus, theme, chorus, theme, chorus, chorus, chorus, fade into silence", because that is just not what I'm trying to say, but I'm not sure about what am I trying to say!!. Look, if you listen to my song guitarrrrrrrrrr, you will se a little bit what I'm trying to do. Here is the link:

http://forum.bandamp.com/Audio_Review/722.html

As you can see, at 0:39 it stars a seccond theme, that goes to another tone, but then, at 1:16, the first theme restarts (I would say that it try to restart) at the new tone, but it doesn't really finalize, but it falls in to the main tone, where I repeat the seccond theme (at 1:48), now played in a diferent way, that returns to the main theme and that's it.

Hey I'm tired, I had some other things to say buy I may say them tomorrow.
#2May 17th, 2006 · 08:30 AM
28 threads / 20 songs
255 posts
Australia
are you talking about forms like binary (AB) and ternary (ABA) and rondo (ABACA) form?
I'm pretty sure that what you explained there is the lyrics answering the questions.... if it was the form doing the Q and A... then 4 in every 5 rock songs do that form, usually A-B-A, then they bring in bridges and a few other things. i didnt listen to your song but from what im reading you seem abit confused about what form is.... hope i made it a little more clear
#3May 17th, 2006 · 10:24 AM
4 threads / 1 songs
16 posts
Canada
While it is useful to study the tried and true ways that classical pieces were put together, I think that these days, it is more important to convincingly shift from one idea to the next, regardless of how you lay out the tune.  If you have two ideas that at first blush donít go together (but you still think they are the same song), you should figure out some phrase that connects them; one that carries out or anticipates the change of key, volume, rhythm, register etc.  I would be quite happy with a tune of the form ABCDEFG as long as the composer could guide the listener through it.
#4December 19th, 2006 · 01:16 PM
6 threads / 3 songs
27 posts
United States of America
you said it bushcellist
thats what I would say as well. but also that form isnt that extremly important...whats important is that it all sounds good together.
#5January 18th, 2007 · 02:22 AM
97 threads / 43 songs
500 posts
Australia
Ever since the romantic era came along, they stopped bothering about that.

I mean, to apply that knowledge to today's music, unless it was meant to sound classical, or you just felt like the challenge of writing a modern song to the style of a Fugue, Minuet, Sonata, etc... Although theoretically, you could follow all these rules and come up with a killer of a song. I have actually done a contrast kind of thing, where I wrote a piano passage in a classical (more romantic era) style, and also wrote a canon (a kind of melody followed by the same melody a bit later) and used the synthesized sounds of fruity loops. So... sure, go ahead, why not, if that's really what you want to focus on. I actually think the beats that make up the song are much more important. To take your example, The House Of The Rising Sun, the reason because it's catchy, is partially the chords, but the arpeggio they're played in, that hooking 6/8 time signature, with that sway that gives the whole song the blues feel, I mean, if it had driving drums in 4/4 time (the constant hammering on all the beats), it would not have been the same song, and probably a different genre, do you see what I'm implying?

And I agree with Chill, you do seem unclear about forms, A,B,A,C, that doesn't mean anything in classical forms. Just last year I had to analyze the form of an ABBA song in school, which comprised of Intro, verse, bridge, chorus, etc... because this is the way we create songs nowdays. Most of the songs I write are: intro, verse, break, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, verse, bridge, chorus, outro. Or something like that, which allows for the song to develop.

Anyways, that's just what I think.

WB
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