| Acoustic Or Electric Drums? |
Swordie started talking about drums in one of my threads - Thought it would be an interesting topic.
I'm a purist by nature and love the real thing, although the practicality of having an Electric kit is tempting.
I know many pro drummers will insist that Roland Electric drums are the best for sound and feel, but maybe technology has improved, I'm not up-to-date with drums. I was tempted to get a set of Traps acoustic drums - I'll add some guy on YouTube playing them and how good they sound once I find it again. So people, what are your thoughts, would do you use, are there any drummers out there who can share expert knowledge with us?
I'm a purist by nature and love the real thing, although the practicality of having an Electric kit is tempting.
I know many pro drummers will insist that Roland Electric drums are the best for sound and feel, but maybe technology has improved, I'm not up-to-date with drums. I was tempted to get a set of Traps acoustic drums - I'll add some guy on YouTube playing them and how good they sound once I find it again. So people, what are your thoughts, would do you use, are there any drummers out there who can share expert knowledge with us?
I played in the band B.O.G. with Chris Thornhill on drums, he is a fantastic drummer, and he uses the Roland V drums (the expensive one). It was excellent for gigging, we always had the same sound, and signal for each gig regardless of the room acoustics.
When we went into the studio, Andy Oxman (the studio owner and engineer) recorded both the V drums audio and midi output, then assigned acoustic drum samples to the midi tracks, blended them together, and it came out great.
up until recently I used a yamaha dt express full electronic kit at my house, I would just record the midi out on it , and use acoustic drum samples.
My favorites are the Ocean Way samples, .......the ones I can actually afford......ez drummer. lol
I also like the addictive drums, imho they require less adjustments, than the Toontrack drums to get them to cut through and sound good. I think the toontrack drum samples are closer to actual raw studio drums though.
If I had the ability to have a nice sized, dedicated drum room in my home studio. I'd go ahead and used all acoustic drums, using good drum mics. That said I would probably do some audio to midi tracks and again add some good drum samples along with the acoustic tracks.
dezz does a good job of using samples drums off of acoustic mic recordings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60b1GFoq6jc
I can't get the youtube link to work right on this forum, works on all the other forums though.
So what I'm saying after all the long post is... Both. I'd prefer both, acoustic, fattened up with samples.
When we went into the studio, Andy Oxman (the studio owner and engineer) recorded both the V drums audio and midi output, then assigned acoustic drum samples to the midi tracks, blended them together, and it came out great.
up until recently I used a yamaha dt express full electronic kit at my house, I would just record the midi out on it , and use acoustic drum samples.
My favorites are the Ocean Way samples, .......the ones I can actually afford......ez drummer. lol
I also like the addictive drums, imho they require less adjustments, than the Toontrack drums to get them to cut through and sound good. I think the toontrack drum samples are closer to actual raw studio drums though.
If I had the ability to have a nice sized, dedicated drum room in my home studio. I'd go ahead and used all acoustic drums, using good drum mics. That said I would probably do some audio to midi tracks and again add some good drum samples along with the acoustic tracks.
dezz does a good job of using samples drums off of acoustic mic recordings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60b1GFoq6jc
I can't get the youtube link to work right on this forum, works on all the other forums though.
So what I'm saying after all the long post is... Both. I'd prefer both, acoustic, fattened up with samples.
toastedgoat wrote…
I played in the band B.O.G. with Chris Thornhill on drums, he is a fantastic drummer, and he uses the Roland V drums (the expensive one). It was excellent for gigging, we always had the same sound, and signal for each gig regardless of the room acoustics.
When we went into the studio, Andy Oxman (the studio owner and engineer) recorded both the V drums audio and midi output, then assigned acoustic drum samples to the midi tracks, blended them together, and it came out great.
up until recently I used a yamaha dt express full electronic kit at my house, I would just record the midi out on it , and use acoustic drum samples.
My favorites are the Ocean Way samples, .......the ones I can actually afford......ez drummer. lol
I also like the addictive drums, imho they require less adjustments, than the Toontrack drums to get them to cut through and sound good. I think the toontrack drum samples are closer to actual raw studio drums though.
If I had the ability to have a nice sized, dedicated drum room in my home studio. I'd go ahead and used all acoustic drums, using good drum mics. That said I would probably do some audio to midi tracks and again add some good drum samples along with the acoustic tracks.
dezz does a good job of using samples drums off of acoustic mic recordings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60b1GFoq6jc
I can't get the youtube link to work right on this forum, works on all the other forums though.
So what I'm saying after all the long post is... Both. I'd prefer both, acoustic, fattened up with samples.
It's got me thinking - I'd love to hear a variety of songs with two or three variations on each song, all having a) an acoustic track, b) electric drum track with on board kits, and, c) an electric drum kit with assigned drum sounds from the midi track.
As you say, having the variety would give you the option to pick the best for a particular song.
However, as far as my personal circumstances are concerned, I don't have the space at the moment, but it gives me something to strive for. The Roland digital kit in the above video would work for me now, I'm quite tempted. I've seen most of Dezz's videos, he's a great teacher and a nice guy, I've learned quite a lot from him alone. You may wanna check out some producers he works with, I came across links of them in his videos.
| figured it out after Battlecats post |
Definitely not an expert. But I have both - acoustic and electric. I have a 70's set of Slingerland Acoustics and a cheapo(Frankenstein - I've modified it some) ION electric. I've tried recording with both. My acoustics are challenging to record (due to room acoustics, type of mic, placement of mic, etc.). I use a set of CAD Premium 7-piece mics. Result? poor (flat, low-volume, shallow sound, poor sound quality) I suspect I need to pre-amp the mics (or buy better quality mics) in order to get better results (also tuning the drums...keeping fresh heads on it, etc. can help). The electric kit gives MUCH better sound quality, (note: it COMES with effects such as reverb, delay, etc.) much easier to set up, etc, but I find that it can be challenging to control the velocity of the hit each time and to have drums that sound consistently realistic (this is dependent upon the quality of the kit you buy, I suspect - I also have had my eye on those Rolands for a while now). In essence, with the electric kit I find that there is an extremely narrow parameter between a hit that produces a soft sound, while another that produces a overly loud sound that will result in clipping of the signal on my recorder..
Additionally, even though I've had a drum set around the house for quite a few years...and I play it pretty regularly...I find that playing drums to music is VERY challenging (timing, song structure, fills, etc. The toughest is developing timing - not racing or dragging behind...) but still fun...
Additionally, even though I've had a drum set around the house for quite a few years...and I play it pretty regularly...I find that playing drums to music is VERY challenging (timing, song structure, fills, etc. The toughest is developing timing - not racing or dragging behind...) but still fun...
battlecat wrote…
Definitely not an expert. But I have both - acoustic and electric. I have a 70's set of Slingerland Acoustics and a cheapo(Frankenstein - I've modified it some) ION electric. I've tried recording with both. My acoustics are challenging to record (due to room acoustics, type of mic, placement of mic, etc.). I use a set of CAD Premium 7-piece mics. Result? poor (flat, low-volume, shallow sound, poor sound quality) I suspect I need to pre-amp the mics (or buy better quality mics) in order to get better results (also tuning the drums...keeping fresh heads on it, etc. can help). The electric kit gives MUCH better sound quality, (note: it COMES with effects such as reverb, delay, etc.) much easier to set up, etc, but I find that it can be challenging to control the velocity of the hit each time and to have drums that sound consistently realistic (this is dependent upon the quality of the kit you buy, I suspect - I also have had my eye on those Rolands for a while now). In essence, with the electric kit I find that there is an extremely narrow parameter between a hit that produces a soft sound, while another that produces a overly loud sound that will result in clipping of the signal on my recorder..
Additionally, even though I've had a drum set around the house for quite a few years...and I play it pretty regularly...I find that playing drums to music is VERY challenging (timing, song structure, fills, etc. The toughest is developing timing - not racing or dragging behind...) but still fun...
I'd love the challenge of getting acoustic drums to sound nice in the mix, playing them is something else... - But you can always get a good drummer to play them for you
Pro drummers always go on about you have to tune a kit, they make it sound so easy - A Drummers mentality if you ask me - They are a different bread to regular musicians...
| re: How to Tune a Bass Drum |
Denis wrote…
Just to prove my point - Drummers make it sound so easy to tune drums
| re: re: How to Tune a Bass Drum |
battlecat wrote…
Right. I've viewed many videos on drum tuning. Everybody has a different take on the subject. Some say you should simply tune each head so it sounds good. Others say you should alter the tunings between the two heads on a drum (to create resonant overtones or something like that) then again others maintain that you should tune each drum to a note(!) I think it is entirely possible that you should tune your drums each time you play them...and change heads fairly frequently...although, this can be quite a pain...Denis wrote…
Just to prove my point - Drummers make it sound so easy to tune drums
| re: re: re: How to Tune a Bass Drum |
Denis wrote…
seems for the avarage non drummer musician an electric kit is a good place to start - but I question the fun element between the two - so what's more fun, acoustic or electric?battlecat wrote…
Right. I've viewed many videos on drum tuning. Everybody has a different take on the subject. Some say you should simply tune each head so it sounds good. Others say you should alter the tunings between the two heads on a drum (to create resonant overtones or something like that) then again others maintain that you should tune each drum to a note(!) I think it is entirely possible that you should tune your drums each time you play them...and change heads fairly frequently...although, this can be quite a pain...Denis wrote…
Just to prove my point - Drummers make it sound so easy to tune drums
) If I HAD to choose ONE...and I was intending to record, I would without reservation recommend a really good electronic kit. To me they offer the MOST fun/practicality for the home musician - and I doubt you would EVER equal the quality sound from an acoustic kit that you could from a really good (Roland) electronic kit.I don't know about all the electronic kits but , with the Yamaha kit I had, and the Roland that chris had, you can go into the midi parameters, and control the velocity , and sustain of the hits to the triggers. Also the sensitivity of the strike or hit .
Battlecat.... when recording acoustic drums, it's can be a real PIA,
Good preamps make a huge difference, ones like the API 500 series , are very transparent, and have a lot of headroom for transient instruments like drums (they work great with drums). The BAE 312s in the 500 series or rack mount work great also. These preamps work great on drums.
Most cheaper preamps lack the headroom needed to get a big drum sound usually.
http://www.daleproaudio.com/p-1415-bae-312a-mic-preamp-and-di-500-series-module.aspx?gclid=CPHt6_axhroCFe4-MgodJU4AKQ
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/API512C?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=recording&device=c&network=g&matchtype=&gclid=CJGJyIeyhroCFcU7Mgodv14AEw
Battlecat.... when recording acoustic drums, it's can be a real PIA,
Good preamps make a huge difference, ones like the API 500 series , are very transparent, and have a lot of headroom for transient instruments like drums (they work great with drums). The BAE 312s in the 500 series or rack mount work great also. These preamps work great on drums.
Most cheaper preamps lack the headroom needed to get a big drum sound usually.
http://www.daleproaudio.com/p-1415-bae-312a-mic-preamp-and-di-500-series-module.aspx?gclid=CPHt6_axhroCFe4-MgodJU4AKQ
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/API512C?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=recording&device=c&network=g&matchtype=&gclid=CJGJyIeyhroCFcU7Mgodv14AEw
| Yamaha Acoustic Drums |
I've only played in a couple of bands, but I was with one band on and off for 15 years and in that time we had various drummers. We used to rehearse in a basement of a Victorian period house. Out of all the kits I heard drummers play I liked the sound of Yamaha the best. We played mostly Jazz Funk.
One drummer had a Sonor kit, the bass drum was so deep, the tone was the best bass drum I've ever heard.
I've never played along with a drummer playing an electric kit, I haven't been in a band since 2006, I'm a bit out of touch on how things are done these days as far as bands are concerned.
One drummer had a Sonor kit, the bass drum was so deep, the tone was the best bass drum I've ever heard.
I've never played along with a drummer playing an electric kit, I haven't been in a band since 2006, I'm a bit out of touch on how things are done these days as far as bands are concerned.
Here is a yamaha DT express kit like the one I had, it's internal samples aren't as good as the expensive Roland kit but, it's a lot cheaper, and with sampled sounds in the computer now (EZ drummer, Addictive drums, etc.) It's all you really need to be able to get a "live" drum feel from playing them, with great acoustic sounds assigned to the midi tracks you record with the electronic drum kit.
This Yamaha kit is fine for live gigs. It has several usable acoustic drum samples built in.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-DTXpress-Electronic-Drum-Set-Kit-Outfit-/190920384393?pt=US_Drums&hash=item2c73bddf89
What I am going to do is to buy one of these...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-H2twMYI4w
http://www.korg.com/padkontrol
I forgot to mention the Steve Slate Drums. He has some real nice drum samples, and a decent audio to midi software just for drums.
This Yamaha kit is fine for live gigs. It has several usable acoustic drum samples built in.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-DTXpress-Electronic-Drum-Set-Kit-Outfit-/190920384393?pt=US_Drums&hash=item2c73bddf89
What I am going to do is to buy one of these...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-H2twMYI4w
http://www.korg.com/padkontrol
I forgot to mention the Steve Slate Drums. He has some real nice drum samples, and a decent audio to midi software just for drums.
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