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#1December 8th, 2007 · 08:45 PM
49 threads / 42 songs
493 posts
United Kingdom
Dont Judge Him - early
*

This song is not in a battle


Hi guys

This is the latest track from me and James. It is called Don't Judge Him, and this is an early mastered version. I know the bass is a bit distorted but it was an artistic choice as part of a really 'in your face sound' so please give any comments you can.

Comments about composition / performance / production are as always valued.

Thanks everyone

Dave and James

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#2December 8th, 2007 · 08:53 PM
49 threads / 42 songs
493 posts
United Kingdom
Lyrics for anyone who wants to know (its about a drug dealer)

Jonas was a nice guy
But he couldn't see past his own vices
A friend of a friend, favour for a favour
Choose your poison whats your flavour
From class A's to purple haze
He will sort you out with a swift backhander
A smile on his face#
And a knowing stare
Wanna get high my friends?
He'll take you there

There are some perks
But he suffers paranoia
Anxiety attacks and occasional violence
He works too hard
He works too hard
But I know that he enjoys it
Don't judge him...

They said he was the one with the head on his shoulders
And written on paper he was quite the candidate
For permanent employment
But that won't give him much enjoyment
He's been stuck pencil pushing
For a minimum wage before
Punching faxes like a drone on the eleventh floor
People think he's making money out of air
Wanna get high my friends?
He'll take you there

There are some perks
But he suffers paranoia
Anxiety attacks and occasional violence
He works too hard
He works too hard
But I know that he enjoys it
Don't judge him...

I knew him well before this
Dont judge him...
He's gonna pull through

There are some perks
But he suffers paranoia
Anxiety attacks and occasional violence
He works too hard
He works too hard
But I know that he enjoys it
Don't judge him...
#3December 8th, 2007 · 09:24 PM
14 threads / 14 songs
232 posts
United States of America
The arpeggio intro of what, three chords? Isn't fitting to the song. The choruses are punk rock sounding, which doesn't match your verses. All three of those parts are cool done very well and make me want to learn to play better.

BUT none of them belong togather.

The scream.......... um, right. It sounds weak. I am not saying that it isn't forward enough. I am saying that it is a weak scream. Girly. 1:20 where the "verse" comes back in kicks the shit out of life. Seriously. Love it. Compliments the first verse. But going into the chorus is just ew. And the chorus itself really doesn't seem to fit with the verses at all.
#4December 8th, 2007 · 09:46 PM
115 threads / 18 songs
1,415 posts
United States of America
hm!  This is rather refreshing, DaveUK and James.  I enjoy the songs that have been posted here recently by you. 

I'm not used to hearing songs with lyrics that talk in the 3rd person with words like "him"--- Honestly, the only song coming to mind is "Better Off Dead", by early New Found Glory.  It was awkward for me, at first to hear the word so much in the song, but I don't offer that as a bad critism.  Musicians are looking to be different (usually) in any way they can, and even if I were to stop reviewing this song right now, then what I've already written has pushed your lyrics into the "different" category.  And I say that on merit of the subject (a drug dealer) and by this frequent usage of "him."

I'm glad that you didn't expressly write about him being a drug dealer in the lyrics-- I think that would have ruined them a little.  What you've written was perfect for it.  I enjoyed the reversed outlook of the song, where you use the semi-sympathetic side of the narrator (or the side of him that at least wants to be sympathetic--- that's only known to you) to express ideas like But he suffers paranoia and He works too hard.  And all at the same time, you've kept the interesting aspect of not condoning his "job", as you leave the bridge with He's gonna pull through, as if it's all just a big phase he'll figure out one day.

Okay, so now that I've said a lot about nothing, really, allow me to go on

That slightly minor 4th note/chord in each bar is great for keeping the guitar melody interesting.  All throughout the song, I didn't feel like the guitar was trying too hard to do it's role.

The opening scream was very well done--- I was very impressed with it, as I wasn't really expecting it to open the song!

The harmony over the chorus was very nice as well; the choice of notes was excellent and I wouldn't complain if this part of the song's composition didn't change a bit from here until final production.  Haha.. I like the very british liason of an imaginary "R" between words that end with an open "a" sound and words that begin with a vowel (typically another "a" from what notice I've taken personally)... "paranoia /R/ anxiety".  It's great.  I love it   It brought me back to when I studied language a little more seriously than I am doing currently, while I work one of those "Punching faxes like a drone on the eleventh floor" jobs until school starts again.

Honestly, I thought that the bridge was the weak point in the song.  The words are fine, I think, but they might need a little something more... maybe bring that scream back into the background, only... you could have it say the same words or something, in some delayed fashion, since the words themselves don't span the whole of the musical interlude.

Hoo-rah for not ending on just a chord fade-out.. I'm getting tired of those, myself.  Thanks for wrapping up the song and tieing it off with a nice pretty bow at the end with that final chord.

overall, I'd say that production isn't bad, and that you're composition is a keeper!    I think James did a good job on these vocals, and I'm very comfortable listening to this in my house without any goofy headphones on.  Let the others hear!  Bah!  I care not!

Great job, guys.  Later

TLS
#5December 8th, 2007 · 09:47 PM
115 threads / 18 songs
1,415 posts
United States of America
blast you dark, i thought i had the first post!  i took too long typing mine... grrr.

:P just kidding.

I completely disagree about the scream being "girly".  It obviously a matter of differing opinions, but still.  The scream is completely okay, and I've heard many that are similar to it, and others that I would in fact classify as "girly".  .. But not this one :P Sorry.  Just my counter-opinion there.
#6December 9th, 2007 · 12:33 AM
14 threads / 14 songs
232 posts
United States of America
His scream was distorted or something and wasn't really the death growl I am used to.
#7December 9th, 2007 · 01:37 AM
64 threads / 13 songs
669 posts
United States of America
I'm going to be careful here, because apart from the fact that if I heard a song of this genre on the radio I would switch it off, but because I don't want my comments to come off with bad taste.

I'll start exclusively musically: The opening chord riff is completely misfitting with the rest of the song.  The fourth chord is dissonant with the rest, and while that isn't a bad thing (it was initially quite refreshing), I agree with Dark that there are some flow issues with sections of the song not fitting together smoothly.  I loved the picked sequences: the tone didn't do much for me---I would have liked to see a little more punch to compliment that great bass---but the great performance and fast-paced nature really sounded great.

I noticed some timing issues with the picking in the intro...I guess you may want to fix that.  There were about 3, maybe 4 spots where I heard a misfret.

I found the cymbals to be too excessive in the chorus.  The reverb or whatever on them made them too present, and there was some timing issue everyone once in a while.  In the bridge especially, it felt a third of a beat too late.  The rest of the kit worked well enough.  There were a few notable fillins that impressed me.

I didn't like the scream, but I guess that's how it is nowadays.  I'm more of an Iron Maiden kind of guy, and obviously this is subjective.  To Dark's credit, I understand his comments with the opening scream, despite his rather unusual critique style   I just don't like this kind of singing---the chorus for example sounded whiney to me.  Again, tastes in music---I'll shy away from properly commenting on the lyrics (I liked the chorus, but that's about it) for the same reason.  I did, however, like the "don't judge him" harmonies.

I won't comment on any mastering/mixing issues as you said this is an early version of the track.  I'm not sure what feedback you are looking for, and frankly, I'd rather be clear on that before I spend more time on this.
#8December 9th, 2007 · 01:58 AM
14 threads / 14 songs
232 posts
United States of America
My third comment on this song... lol

The scream reminded me of flyleaf over any other band that screams that I've been at concert. Maybe the used, but the used's screamer really fuckin' screams.

And before you mistake my comments for "OMG THIS SONG SUCKS" it is in my playlist because of the panning and sheer awesomenes on the verses. You're gonna have to tell me how to do that with the panning. I mean, I can go into audacity and pick out every other note and hard pan it 100% but that seems like alot of work. SHORTCUT PLZ.
#9December 9th, 2007 · 07:01 AM
371 threads / 187 songs
3,387 posts
United Kingdom
Intro nice, like the chords.

Scream sounds OK to me.

This is the sort of song needs to be played a few times to be appreciated.

I've found it's hard to work with a drum machine when you have such dramatic changes like in this song, although you have done an excellent job programming, it's always the way, but if you ever get the opportunity
to work with real drums it would bring out the best in this particular song.

I like the arrangement actually, it's got identity!!

Perhaps some lead fills, but not essential.

Are you playing with your Ibinaz guitar, it's got a great tone for this style of music, I was thinking of buying one myself, they are superb value for money don't you think?

Not bad recording, considering your still working on it!!

All in all this is a great song, well done chaps.

Merry Christmas!!

High Rate

Denis
#10December 9th, 2007 · 08:43 AM
49 threads / 42 songs
493 posts
United Kingdom
Hi all thanks forthe comments

Well I guess this one was always going to be a subjective one because it is kind of a fusion of styles. To answer particular points:

- Any 'misfretted' notes are left in intentionally. I don't like recording guitar in many takes, I like to keep it fresh so alot of what you hear here is improvised as I recorded. I've been playing 10 years and can play 8 notes a beat at 120bpm, so if I was in a studio spending serious time on it then yeh I'd sit there and everything would be spot on accurate.

- I think James did a good job on the scream

- I wasn't a big fan of that chord you mentioned either, but it is James' riff, he is keen on it, and it grew on me.

- The drums were recorded using a MIDI keyboard so there is still a strong 'human' element - although I agree with Denis and I'd very much like to bring James' DTXplorer Yamaha electronic drum kit to the table.

- The panning was in part due to simply recording each guitar twice (manually) and panning them carefully (about 70 each way on clean 60 on dist). However the cleverest bit on the clean parts is that I used a Stereo delay from my Boss GT-8, and set the delay times in MS to suit the tempo of the song using a delay time calculator (google search them). This way, the delay reflections are actually in time with the song!

- Yes I used my Ibanez, just gave it a tune up actually, I love it. It is an Ibanez RG2570EX so its kind of a mid-range one, and it is very easy to play with a cool sound. It also has an insanely fast neck for lead work.

Thanks again
#11December 9th, 2007 · 09:23 AM
115 threads / 18 songs
1,415 posts
United States of America
... I'm sorry... I truely hope that I don't come off as a fight-picker, because I really don't care for that sort of thing, but this must be said.... and it must be said because it just irks me to a level that I can't properly express in text on a screen..

avinashv wrote…
I won't comment on any mastering/mixing issues as you said this is an early version of the track.  I'm not sure what feedback you are looking for, and frankly, I'd rather be clear on that before I spend more time on this.

avi... *sigh*... look man, DaveUK intentionally alluded to this very issue in his post...

DaveUK wrote…
Comments about composition / performance / production are as always valued.

it's in complete, direct reply to the previous ... scuffle?  misunderstanding, even?

post whatever you want.  DaveUK's giving you something between a (very) light apology and a (more than) light ticket to do what you love to do: critique songs at in-depth level.  don't go and be a martyr on us, man.  Just do your thing.

okay, I promise I won't make any more posts like this, especially on your songs, DaveUK.  I apologize to you in advance.  (both of you, actually.  I aplogize to both DaveUK and avinashv, as I'm sure I'll come off as put-off and annoyed)

Have a lovely day, folks.  Thanks, James, for the comment on my recent track   Don't fret it about the "R" thing!  It's defining as a geographical difference/anomoly between the dialects of the same root language.  (I specify "root" since one could argue that english from the UK and then USA english have evolved into something, each unique in its own right.)  Besides, your english existed before mine
#12December 9th, 2007 · 09:46 AM
49 threads / 42 songs
493 posts
United Kingdom
hehe don't worry TLS I appreciate your input; I think some people don't realise the way their typed text appears to the reader. I severely doubt Avi intended his post to sound as rude as it did.
#13December 9th, 2007 · 10:07 AM
77 threads / 59 songs
923 posts
Netherlands
hehe.., i'd found avi's comment very refreshing and honest.., its just a (critical) opinion...
i always enjoy when ppl took the time to tell their thoughts after good listening, like avi and TLS both did as it seems to me

anyway, i liked the song a lot, also the dissonants

mix is fine to me, i think within time you'll find little issues yourself and it grows best as possible, always remains something if u want to, i'd say the music has to be great in the first place.., and it is to me
drum is quite alright to me, except too loud cymbals in verses
guitar is superb, someone mentioned 'identity' somehwere.., i agree you have that, quite a compliment from a guitarist to a guitarist there
 
#14December 9th, 2007 · 10:10 AM
77 threads / 45 songs
2,296 posts
United States of America
...
Man I like the Intro....The Screaming sets it off...The lyrics are pretty damn good ( From Class A's to Purple Haze) Nice..Yeah, The Bass is in your face...but, I think it goes well with this that way..James sounds good on this...nice Flow..I like this...nice work you guys

Flyer

Will Rate
#15December 9th, 2007 · 10:10 AM
1 threads / 1 songs
12 posts
United Kingdom
Thanks for Comments :)
The scream was actually an adlib that i did, Dave usually has to leave the room, because recording vocals can sometimes end in fits of laughter, we have a good time recording songs and sometimes we spent so long taking the piss on the mics and laughing, it can take all night..... Dave hit record and left the room to take a song sized dump, i sometimes put something to laugh about at the start of the track for when he gets back, it prepares my voice  is easily taken away, and because Dave wasnt expecting it, perhaps it made going to the toilet a bit easier. 

It sounded ok to our ears when played back, which was a surprise, theres no distortion on it though Dark its on the main vocal track....well i guess a scream is kindof a distorted voice anyway.

Dark i totally digg what your saying, ive got death metal chums that are gonna string me up for my weedy runtish emo-esqe screams, but i am a bit weedy and runtish so at least a bit of me came through in the song lol.

TLS, youve got it all wrong...... i loved that you piked up on that!  I think its great, people have always said i put to much american in my voice when singing and ive been working on bringing the British through a bit, so i took that as a compliment

Thanks all for the comments, we will discuss them all when prepping the final mix.

I rate this 5 stars! (just kidding guys, god im funny arnt I?!)
 
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