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#1May 2nd, 2007 · 05:10 AM
97 threads / 43 songs
500 posts
Australia
SessionSound
It seems there's a member who's here to promote some other music site.
Sessionsound: http://sessionsound.bandamp.com/
Rather than becoming involved in the community, his sole thread is a promo for the site: http://forum.bandamp.com/Events/50180.html
I doubt this member's intentions were for the community rather than his own site's development, so... I just thought it might be of interest to the mods.
#2May 2nd, 2007 · 05:56 PM
1 threads
79 posts
United States of America
So what do you suggest be done?
#3May 2nd, 2007 · 11:55 PM
Hi there

This is Fadi, from SessionSound, and I just noticed this thread started up.

Ouch, got "dobbed on" & my intentions questioned...  :-)

While I am conscious of the new adage - "arguing on the internet is like winning a medal at the special Olympics... even if you win, you're still a retard", I do feel compelled to respond.

Firstly, being involved in the community doesn't just mean posting in the forums.  We're involved in supporting the community, including BandAmp, by buying indie, promoting indie, and off-site contact with various artists.  So we've only posted once...is that really so bad?

Secondly, are we interested in just advertising ourselves?  Well, yes we do want to reach a targetted audience of indie musicians, such as those on BandAMP.  Why?  Because we've got a valuable service to offer a lot of them who want to promote & sell their music online, for free.  It's not a gimmick, we don't make money until the artist does. 

Check out the website yourself, then question our intentions...we're not clubbing baby seals, we're providing a service which these people in these forums spend a lot of time suggesting to one another and seeking out.  I could have 'pretended' to be an artist and told you about a 'cool new website', but we're not trying to con anyone or insult your intelligence... there's no paid ads on bandAMP (which we would be happy to sponsor), so we posted directly in the forums.

And last, but not least, Writersblock... here's an invitation for you to get involved in the indie music community even further - post your stuff on SessionSound for sale, and we'll run your ad on our front page for a month.  Costs you nothing at all... how's that for support?

Cheers

Fad
#4May 3rd, 2007 · 04:13 AM
97 threads / 43 songs
500 posts
Australia
Yes, well...
I do not doubt your intentions at all.
What my issue is that you seek out permission from the mods before you start promoting yourself to bandamp.
Also, I find it slightly annoying how you promote a music site on another music site, it's almost as if you're saying, hey, this site may be pretty good, but I think this one's better.

And while I'm not having a go at your site, I just think that this style of promotion is a little off, and while it may be only one post, people see others doing it and for sites that are just gimmicks etc.

So, its not a shot at your site, but if you get a little involved here, maybe you can offer something to the individuals of this site in a more interactive and productive way.

Cheers

WB
#5May 3rd, 2007 · 06:25 AM
no probs
Hi WB

Point taken, and thanks for the feedback.

Speaking of which, do you know how I might get in contact with someone who runs the site?

I do want to offer more to this community, and was hoping to chat with them about it.

Cheers

Fad

PS.  the offer still stands by the way, if you're keen to feature your stuff on sessionsound, and sell it etc.  would be our pleasure to help promote you...
#6May 3rd, 2007 · 07:01 AM
97 threads / 43 songs
500 posts
Australia
sure, PuppetXeno and JimkDaAdtman are the ones to talk to about the community stuff, although, I think slasherx here is able to contact mud, whose site this is.
I think there's great potential here to link the two sites, as bandamp has a solid community base, and upon appearances, sessionsound has a great marketing opportunity. But you must run it through the mods, let them make something of it.

Cheers

WB

P.S. I'll definitely consider taking up your offer sometime in the future. 
#7May 3rd, 2007 · 12:29 PM
89 threads / 11 songs
865 posts
United States of America
well, you guys are having a very civil discussion of this issue, but the bottom line is that this is advertising. This is not the first time this kind of thing has surfaced (usually by an ambitious entrepreneur who, as Mr. Fadisessionsound demonstrates, rationalizes his overt marketing strategy by claiming he wants to offer a "service" ...as if to imply the motive is not personal profit). This is just another spammer...we've had lots of dialogs about this and the consensus of the site has been that this kind of marketing on this site is unwelcome. Of course it's up to the designated people to decide the action to be taken on this.
#8May 3rd, 2007 · 05:32 PM
340 threads / 59 songs
4,344 posts
United Kingdom
We at Kings think that we battlecat is spot on, we Fadi (sounds like a gay Scotsman) is simply winding we WB around his very nimble fingers! And it is simply advertising!

But I would like to raise a point ;  Are there not people on bandAmp who are indeed looking for 'people like' we Fadi? And the 'services' they and their sites 'offer', whether we think they are 'scams' or 'yet another business/money making venture' is besides the point, because on one hand the businessman and the artist have to work together to be successful, and on the other hand, at least some of them must be as honest as honest could be people trying to set up a legitimate business/idea. 

What I'm trying to say is, why don't you make a "spam" forum where all the ads/offers/spam could be put and members could comment and the spamees can defend and sell their wares!!
Not only would it be a place to contain them it would be a place for members and future members to 'check out' what's being offered by the so called on-line music business world. Something, I'm sure a lot of 'future members' come here looking for! "What can I do with my music.....?"   Well.....this is what it's like.....

In time it would become a nice portfolio of different companies/sites, all commented on by members, with questions and answers!
Because if your clever enough to set a web business and are now spending your time 'selling' it, laying links and connections, you are clever enough to realise what your faced with, An Advertising Pit! and if you post anywhere else on the site you get chucked in there anyway!  To fight for your cause!!! 

It's an idea, and I would like to know what you think!
#9May 3rd, 2007 · 06:46 PM
89 threads / 11 songs
865 posts
United States of America
interesting idea, Kings! I agree there might be a place for information-sharing about this aspect of the business...my major concern (disclaimer: I don't mean to infer that I have anything to do with administrative decisions on this site...I am simply stating a preference as a participant), is that the site becomes infiltrated by people with a product to sell, and thus community becomes as superficial and predatory as we have witnessed above. Maybe if these types are secluded in their own room and not allowed anywhere else on site, their influence won't sully the rest of the site, and any legitimate purpose for these "services" can be accessible. These types will need to be kept in close reigns, as they tend to be quite intrusive, presumptive and manipulative as (again) witnessed above ("So we've only posted once...is that really so bad?"....hmmmmm..... I distinctly see a cloven foot and horns peeking out on this one). This will potentially need intensive monitoring and intervention by moderators. I will say, however, that anybody with a legitimate business doesn't need to peddle it with the kind of  sales line that this guy offers....he sounds like an Amway or a Life insurance salesman....("I do want to offer more to this community, and was hoping to chat with them about it"....c'mon man....pulleeeez!).
#10May 3rd, 2007 · 06:50 PM
42 threads / 1 songs
556 posts
United States of America
Wow Kings..... I must say that your idea absolutely delights me.
I do agree that posting spam is no way to advertise.  I also enjoy the fact that mud doesn't have banners and ads plastered all over this site.

Your suggestion seems incredibly logical. You're right, artists can't thrive without the business portion of the profession. And as you said, future users might think, "hey wow look at all this site has to offer."

The question is, is there enough legit business interest in this site to support and promote that?
#11May 4th, 2007 · 01:23 AM
37 threads / 19 songs
618 posts
United States of America
One Question??
once you promote a person's original song for purposes
of collecting revenue, doesn't that then take it out of the
race for "original publishing?" puts it in the rhelm of then
being "professional"??? in which the person then changes
to a level in which publishing companies won't touch him
with a 10' pole...  If I remember my years of involvement
in the business part of the industry..  luckly I never collected
a dime for one of my songs... even the one that was published
on the b side of rag doll, never made me a penny... which
again has kept me in an amateur status and thus will make
my originals available to those that would be more willing to
look at them for publishing..  right???  
  Now I am just quoting the way the business use to run, as
well as asking very sincere questions here..  and I've only
just now opened the index page of  sessionsound... so neither
am I trying to discredit what you have going over there either..
  Now I was part of a collective years ago that took on Yahoo.com
when they tried to claim rights to our material if we were members..
but that was them trying to cliam rights, unsolicited.. and I am very
sorry, but if anyone tries to publish anything of mine without permission,
I WILL SUE!! I already had a couple of songs stolen from myself and two
of my best friends back in the seventies..  we were members of a local
songwriters association..  there was one of the studios in the area that
the owners would record the meetings without anyone else knowing about
it.. needless to say, there were a couple of top ten hits that came out
that shite!!!!  Not saying any of our's did, but not saying they didn't!!!
 In the past when music because a burden of "Business" I have laid
down my music.. one time for a five year stretch...  I will do it again
too.. and this time, it will be like my mom's dad.. I will set it down for
good next time!!! My grandpa on my mom's side was once part of a
popular Trio.. they had their own radio show that aired thirty minutes
before the Ernest Tubbs Show...  and then grandpa was accepted into
one of the grand ol opry "touring" companies... but then grandma got
pregnant with their first born... my mother.. so grandpa retired from
music and went to work with T.V.A... after Wheeler and Wilson halted
for the war, TVA put him through the full apprentice program and he
became a master pipe fitter...  and that was after the depression, but
just before world war two...  I never understood his decision to be
honest.. looks like he could have made life so much better on his family
playing music rather then cleaning out sewers... but then again he made
top dollar even when he opened up his own private plumbing business...
he was part of the ones that formed the very first plumber's/pipe fitter's
union in this part of the country. and was very loyal till the union bosses
tried to cheat him and the locals of north alabama, mississippi and southern
tennessee by changing their sealed bids to low for grandpa and the area's
locals to live... 
 what this all is about is I am not willing to give my heart and soul up for
anyone to sell without having full knowledge of all the fine print!!!


Blessings,

Blueyes..
#12May 4th, 2007 · 01:25 AM
37 threads / 19 songs
618 posts
United States of America
appended..
Oh and it only takes a person collecting a few pennies to then
move from amateur to pro-am and professional...


blessings,

Blueyes
#13May 4th, 2007 · 01:36 AM
37 threads / 19 songs
618 posts
United States of America
Kings, Oldies, BC, WB...
food for thought.. the writers of Sharing the Night Together,
as well as the band Dr. Hook and the Medicine Show..
Never made any money off their music!!! the promoters
did!! even the publishing rights were signed away... kinda puts
one in the frame of mind as one of the messages very easily
served from the movie "Crossroads" when Willy Brown told
the devil he hadn't got what he bargained for.. the devil simply
said "Things are never as good as we want, but you did become
the best blues player that ever lived!"  So you see, sing your stuff
away to someone that's only real interest is to promote themselves
first..
 again, not saying these things about fadi.. just in general...

Blessings,

Blueyes!
#14May 4th, 2007 · 03:56 AM
97 threads / 43 songs
500 posts
Australia
Fadi
So, now you see the full extent of why your thread was treated with suspicion.
And, wow, kings, I did seem to wrap around his finger a little too easily.
Once again, this wasn't a personal shot, I'd do it to any thread of the sort, but a personal reply is a huge contrast to your thread. So if you earnestly care about this site you'll do what's best. If you don't then it would be appropriate to leave. Once again, a mod's opinion would be handy.

Cheers
#15May 4th, 2007 · 12:09 PM
89 threads / 11 songs
865 posts
United States of America
it occurs to me that it is probably a good idea to avoid any transactions that may impact your music,your future or your financial situation with people that solicit on this site. This is an international site, open to the world, and the potential for predation is enormous. Furthermore, the music business is a complicated one, and too much haste in entering into transactions with people who claim to be connected with the industry can result in possible negative consequences. In my opinion, it would be prudent to do allot of independent research (and consider legal advice) before you leap. On second thought, I would probably vote to ban this kind of solicitation from the site (there are plenty of legitimate and well-established agencies out there that you can explore of your own accord, if you're willing to do your homework). We have extensively discussed this in the past (and our moderators have banned some of these spammers....probably not a bad idea).
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