| Sound System HELP!! |
ok im making some progress with the band so much in fact we need to practice with reall sound like a full setup and i was wondering since we are like reall cheap and dont have enough cash can we just run guitar bass and vocals through the PA i dont see why we cant as long as we balance them out ok i mean it would probably just be temporary until we get some amps but.... i mean what do you think
lol we have amps... but there like 60 watt and that wont be enough im buying 2 400W speakers so.... i dont see the problem but im new so... 
| where are you? |
Where are you practicing that 60 watt wont be enough? Where are you planning on gigging that 60 watt wont be enough? I mean dude.. 60 watt is massive... And, you can mic them and run them through the PA, which is the BEST way to do it if playing in a larger arena where you need more power... This way, you can control the tone of the guitar much better.... it is also easier to mix. No soundman in his right mind would let the guitarists use their amps without giving him some control over the mix. So, be kind to your sound guy, and your audience, and your pocketbook, and use your 60 watters, and do it right... Mic's are a wonderful thing.. And you can get some decent ones cheap....
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation/dynamic-microphones?N=100001+304624&;Ns=P_Price|0&page=2
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation/dynamic-microphones?N=100001+304624&;Ns=P_Price|0&page=2
no i mean we have electric guitars and.... im buying a pa i was gonna just direct box and preamp the instruments then mix it in... and... we practice in a garage and 60w sounds good but we are a new band and you have to understand we want the neighbors to hear us.... i mean HEAR US!!!!! lol and plus there are these chicks down the street!!!! oooooo yea!!!!! they live about a block away and we want them to hear us!!!
.... i know but come on 400 watts!!!! (i have the 400w power amp)!!!!!!!
400!!!!! lol it just sounds cool and im really excited!! and.... well IM ADD AND THIS HAS HELD MY ATENTION FOR LIKE 10 MIN I DO BELIEVE THAT IS A RECORD!!!!!!!
400!!!!! lol it just sounds cool and im really excited!! and.... well IM ADD AND THIS HAS HELD MY ATENTION FOR LIKE 10 MIN I DO BELIEVE THAT IS A RECORD!!!!!!!
| dont do that |
Mic the Amps, you can direct connect the guitars but that sounds like crap, because you lose the amp's vibe.. And lose all control over the tone... What is wrong with you? Are you a guitarist or not? I mean, no guitarist relinquishes his tone... Sheesh... Man, kids... 
... As for the girls down the block, I think they'll hear ya just fine with the 60 watters, but to be sure, get a PA, and MIC THE AMPS. the only other solution is an amp modeler, using software, but still I suggest MIC THE AMP!!!!!!!
JimK
... As for the girls down the block, I think they'll hear ya just fine with the 60 watters, but to be sure, get a PA, and MIC THE AMPS. the only other solution is an amp modeler, using software, but still I suggest MIC THE AMP!!!!!!!JimK
ok so.... im micing my guitarists amp and my bass amp as well.... (im also the sound guy so...) lolanyway ok we have 60w bass and guitar amps so i'll just mic them and run them through with.... shure SM58's? i already have 2 and it would be the cheapest way out.... so yes no maybe?
THANKS FOR THE HELP JIM!!!!!!!! JIM YOUR ARE KNOW THE BAND AMP PIMP!!!!!!!!!!! 
OK, I'm going to add fuel to the flames of this argument (perhaps!) 
SS, you can do just as you suggest DI-ing bass and guitars to the PA.... but what Jim says is spot on - you won't have any tonal control, and that sucks UNLESS you're putting the instruments through an FX pedal that has amp simulation on it.
I continue to do this with my guitar, and it sounds just fine (honest Jim, it does). However, I really think that the bass should be run off a proper bass amp - it'll really muddy the sound so much if it goes through the PA direct, and it's unusual for Bass players to fiddle that much with pedals (particularly with amp sims in them); to crank up the volume of the bass, then you can take a mix from bass amp and DI it to the PA again, but keep the levels low enough to just give a little additional reinforcement.
But what are you doing with the drums? If you want the whole band to be loud then are you also going to amp up the drums.... in which case (unless they're digital) you'll need these to be mic'd up with at least 3 mics (possibly run through their own mini-mixer so that you don't use up all the inputs of the main mixer!) If you are mic-ing up the drums, then go with JimK's thoughts, and mic up the guitar and bass amps too! If you're not going to mic up the drums.... then don't mic up the rest and keep the PA for vocals and any backing tracks you may use - it really will be a better sound that way.
As far as the cabs you're looking at. They look fine.... (actually they look a bit too big and heavy for me - but then I've humped my 4x12 laney cab about in my youth, and really don't want to go with the weighty equipment any more!) Are you sure that the 400W quoted is RMS and not programmed or peak power rating - if it's not, then you may be disappointed as they may only be 250W cabs in reality (I mean that's loud, but not as loud as you hoped, right?) And you also say you have a 400W PA amp? What the output rating - is it 400W into 4, 8, or even 2 Ohms? Check this out before you commit to buy the speakers, as a 400W 4 Ohm amp going into 8 Ohm speakers will give out about 200W max!
Good luck!
SS, you can do just as you suggest DI-ing bass and guitars to the PA.... but what Jim says is spot on - you won't have any tonal control, and that sucks UNLESS you're putting the instruments through an FX pedal that has amp simulation on it.
I continue to do this with my guitar, and it sounds just fine (honest Jim, it does). However, I really think that the bass should be run off a proper bass amp - it'll really muddy the sound so much if it goes through the PA direct, and it's unusual for Bass players to fiddle that much with pedals (particularly with amp sims in them); to crank up the volume of the bass, then you can take a mix from bass amp and DI it to the PA again, but keep the levels low enough to just give a little additional reinforcement.
But what are you doing with the drums? If you want the whole band to be loud then are you also going to amp up the drums.... in which case (unless they're digital) you'll need these to be mic'd up with at least 3 mics (possibly run through their own mini-mixer so that you don't use up all the inputs of the main mixer!) If you are mic-ing up the drums, then go with JimK's thoughts, and mic up the guitar and bass amps too! If you're not going to mic up the drums.... then don't mic up the rest and keep the PA for vocals and any backing tracks you may use - it really will be a better sound that way.
As far as the cabs you're looking at. They look fine.... (actually they look a bit too big and heavy for me - but then I've humped my 4x12 laney cab about in my youth, and really don't want to go with the weighty equipment any more!) Are you sure that the 400W quoted is RMS and not programmed or peak power rating - if it's not, then you may be disappointed as they may only be 250W cabs in reality (I mean that's loud, but not as loud as you hoped, right?) And you also say you have a 400W PA amp? What the output rating - is it 400W into 4, 8, or even 2 Ohms? Check this out before you commit to buy the speakers, as a 400W 4 Ohm amp going into 8 Ohm speakers will give out about 200W max!
Good luck!
What type of venue are you performing at?
With a small venue say 100 people no PA necessary.
Anyway, My personal preference is to mic up the amp, it sounds so so much better. I dont like DI,
just doesn't sound right, too machanical.
Your on a tight budget so use your SM58' they will be Ok, you may need to cut the bass down on the PA
it will sound muffled otherwise. Play around with the mic positions until your happy with the sound
2 mics is good enough for the drums, one for the bass drum the other in the middle of the kit over the top and about a 4 foot away or the width of the kit.
And only mic up if your micing everthing up, except vox obviously.
Happy giging
Denis
With a small venue say 100 people no PA necessary.
Anyway, My personal preference is to mic up the amp, it sounds so so much better. I dont like DI,
just doesn't sound right, too machanical.
Your on a tight budget so use your SM58' they will be Ok, you may need to cut the bass down on the PA
it will sound muffled otherwise. Play around with the mic positions until your happy with the sound
2 mics is good enough for the drums, one for the bass drum the other in the middle of the kit over the top and about a 4 foot away or the width of the kit.
And only mic up if your micing everthing up, except vox obviously.
Happy giging
Denis
Two mics for the drums.... ok, that will get me starting a new thread!!!
It looks to me like we're all saying more or less the same thing.... if you really need the power, then mic it all up and don't DI the instruments straight into the PA; especially not your bass.
(Yes, I know I do it with my guitar via an FX pedal with some pretty decent Amp sims... It's because I have tailored my sounds for both recording and playing live, and don't want any additional amp "colouring" the sound in any way. I do have an amp for my guitar, but it's a 120W PA monitor!)
I've looked again at the speakers you're interested in... a fair number of reviews say that they're not so good in terms of workmanship; loose connections, horns not able to stand the loud volumes. There's one review that says their good for the value, but don't think about putting 400W through them. Choose carefully, you may be disappointed otherwise.
It looks to me like we're all saying more or less the same thing.... if you really need the power, then mic it all up and don't DI the instruments straight into the PA; especially not your bass.
(Yes, I know I do it with my guitar via an FX pedal with some pretty decent Amp sims... It's because I have tailored my sounds for both recording and playing live, and don't want any additional amp "colouring" the sound in any way. I do have an amp for my guitar, but it's a 120W PA monitor!)
I've looked again at the speakers you're interested in... a fair number of reviews say that they're not so good in terms of workmanship; loose connections, horns not able to stand the loud volumes. There's one review that says their good for the value, but don't think about putting 400W through them. Choose carefully, you may be disappointed otherwise.
ok so.... heres what i think i have to do I have 4 mics totall
2-SM58's
1-MKL 990
1-Mkl 991
i think i'll use all of these for instruments
the shures for instruments and then the mkl's for the
drums actually i looked and it says you can use
the mkl's for the drums.... so thats what im gonna do
but then i'll just buy another mic for vocals
let me clarify one thing I dont have a PA system i have
a mixer that preamps the mics that way i dont have to
have a PA i dont know so they may be the same thing but..
like i said im new and im working out the kinks
as for the speakers.... i may be tonning it down and
buying some other stuff my youth minister said we
could use the power amp they have (400W) but we need
our own so... im just gonna buy it all now... im thinking
200 or 300w now!!! lol
2-SM58's
1-MKL 990
1-Mkl 991
i think i'll use all of these for instruments
the shures for instruments and then the mkl's for the
drums actually i looked and it says you can use
the mkl's for the drums.... so thats what im gonna do
but then i'll just buy another mic for vocals
let me clarify one thing I dont have a PA system i have
a mixer that preamps the mics that way i dont have to
have a PA i dont know so they may be the same thing but..
like i said im new and im working out the kinks
as for the speakers.... i may be tonning it down and
buying some other stuff my youth minister said we
could use the power amp they have (400W) but we need
our own so... im just gonna buy it all now... im thinking
200 or 300w now!!! lol
lots of different ideas... here ok I have tried the bass guitar DI straight from the bass guitar spit into the pa and ran into the bass rig ... I happen to prefer this setup because i can control the tonal aspects of the bass in the Mains (PA speakers) So many times have i been sent a signal out of a bass rig that sounded great (the eq'n ect ) thru the bass rig speakers but sounded like total crap in the pa and absolutely no way to clean it up ... guitars i prefer mic'n the guitar players rig .. but i have used amp simulators just fine (line 6 pod) you can control the mix and volume levels much better by DI'n the bass and amp simulating the guitars and using electronic drums..
Now for the reality of PA stuff... 400 watts hmm I would keep my volumes levels way down on the guitars and bass ,, put a mic on the kick snare and some kinda of overhead , keep the levels down just barely let em come thru the pa cause your going to need almost all your power just to get the vocals to keep up in a clean fashion..
low end eats power, bass is non directional, so first thing to pull out of the pa if the vox won't keep up is the bass guitar, and keep the kick turned way down. roll the low end out of the guitar, you'll have to play around with it ,or find someone who knows what to do, to help you get set up and find your usable levels .. compression can help a bunch on the vox , kick, and bass. to smooth out the peaks, and let you bring the levels up.. with 400 watts (that's not a lot of power for rock band rigs) don't expect a massive sound but you can get a very clean small club sound out of 400 watts...... if you don't turn up to loud.
watch for to much peaking of the power amp and distortion out of the pa speakers.
Now for the reality of PA stuff... 400 watts hmm I would keep my volumes levels way down on the guitars and bass ,, put a mic on the kick snare and some kinda of overhead , keep the levels down just barely let em come thru the pa cause your going to need almost all your power just to get the vocals to keep up in a clean fashion..
low end eats power, bass is non directional, so first thing to pull out of the pa if the vox won't keep up is the bass guitar, and keep the kick turned way down. roll the low end out of the guitar, you'll have to play around with it ,or find someone who knows what to do, to help you get set up and find your usable levels .. compression can help a bunch on the vox , kick, and bass. to smooth out the peaks, and let you bring the levels up.. with 400 watts (that's not a lot of power for rock band rigs) don't expect a massive sound but you can get a very clean small club sound out of 400 watts...... if you don't turn up to loud.
watch for to much peaking of the power amp and distortion out of the pa speakers.
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