1 2
#16April 6th, 2009 · 03:42 AM
159 threads / 32 songs
1,956 posts
United States of America
I agree with tonight and I don';t agree at the same time.. new egg offers up bundles at sale prices all the time.

go shopping.

 when I put my pc together.. If I would of bought a brand name computer to match what I have in this box.. I would have spent a $2000.00 or better to match it...

I put it together for a fraction of that cost.

 it takes a little know how and a little research..

I also don't agree on the firewire.. every major studio I have worked with or know about.. FIREWIRE
my usb interfaces barely comes in to a tolerable latency for recording imho.. i can record with it but it sucks..
 my firewire with the  rewire in the pci card take the monitor mixing returns away from the computer which speeds the return sounds and your recording tracks up immensely.  my latency with my firewire pci is non noticeable..   I may not be an expert on computers and writing software, but I do know the DAW systems that are out there .. From top end stuff like the apogee and prism sound all the way ,down   to Maudio stuff.. alot of it I get to try out from time to time..

If you want thin sounding  tracks, latency issues and cheaper AD/DA converter ( in the digital realm this means a lot) use cheaper slower  USB interfaces.. I have em I know.

 an example... I had a chance to try out  the apogee ensemble interface with the preamps .. I have what a lot of people would consider to be very good interfaces (motu 2408's ) .  I laid down one guitar track and one vocal track with the ensemble ,, In just that little bit of recording, I knew there was a world of difference between my pci firewire interfaces, and their firewire interfaces.. I mean very noticeable differences .  I researched why and found out , almost every cheaper interface skimps on the quality of the analog section in the converters (cheapest ones skimp on the digiital section too) .. also the apogee jitter is very very small to the jitter in other interfaces (loss of timing and information).. it doesn't need a time piece / host to clock everything  together ( almost every cheaper interface (including the ones I use now) ,... lack in that department).

 I am not trying to talk you into spending a ton of money.. but look around and research things.. you can call apogee and talk to them about future products ect. same with motu. , didgidesign (protools) and others.. they have sales staff and customer service techs that will get on the ph and talk about their products.  Do your own homework. You might be surprised at how cheap you can get a clean fast system, or even a  professional set up.

 I would look for upgrades usb 3.0 but I believe the pro gear will move on to either another setup or FW3200.
#17April 6th, 2009 · 01:45 PM
115 threads / 18 songs
1,414 posts
United States of America
And I'm not really dissing Firewire itself, but if he isn't pursuing any hardware that needs firewire yet, then I'm really not sure what it'll do for him yet.  Note the "yet".  It really has its uses.  Cost-wise, the problem is that it's the ONLY use it has, and so it hasn't become mainstream to justify a spending fling.

As for building the computer-- you're exactly correct: you have to buy parts in bundles or at discounted rates.  But simply buying them separately at any standard price won't yield the benefit.  DowntownSasquatch should just know that he's on a bargain hunt for every piece if he expects to save money.

DowntownSasquatch, I sent you an email with that serial key of mine.  Don't abuse it :P

If you're looking for a motherboard, DowntownSasquatch, make sure that it has "PCIe" / "PCI express" slots on it.  (The other things you might see are "PCI" (no "e" or "express" on it), "AGP", and then extra terms like "SLI" or "crossfire".  You really don't need anything with crossfire, and probably not SLI, either.  Those are mostly used for gaming-caliber video cards.  All of those acronyms refer to the kinds of cards your computer can handle.  Therefore, if you do decide to get a firewire card, you'll have to make sure its type matches that of the slots on your motherboard.  Ideally, you'd be getting a motherboard with PCIexpress slots, and then hardware cards (firewire, soundcard, video card, etc, etc) that are also PCIexpress.  The pin configurations are different on all the varieties of card types, so you cannot buy one and expect it to fit another's slot on your motherboard.
#18April 6th, 2009 · 05:06 PM
24 threads
166 posts
United States of America
Hey thanks alot...
eMachine computer specifications


        ok so...  lets do a little pro con thing for usb vs firwire...
                  give me more reasonns guys...


       USB 2.0                                       FIREWIRE
        1. cheaper                                           1. faster
        2. more user friendly                                 2. more upgradable?

any more reasons...

and btw.........

if i use a USB mixer.... that has monitor outs and returns.... will i need sound card?

b/c won't the usb like... bypass my soundcard and go straight to the driver/program?

just a thought..
#19April 6th, 2009 · 06:25 PM
181 threads / 54 songs
1,930 posts
USB owns. end of discussion. firewire is like for macs only, and if you have a mac then sure use it. I have A usb mixer, all usb ports on my computer and i dont really care about changing it becayse all of my devices are USB...not worth the change or the money in my opinion...im satisfied as it is
#20April 6th, 2009 · 08:24 PM
115 threads / 18 songs
1,414 posts
United States of America

USB 2.0 pros
-Gets more attention
-More common
-Not "slow" (but not as fast as newer firewire cards)
-Can draw power from the computer, sometimes eliminating the need for an external power supply on small devices.
- freaking cheap

Firewire pros
-Much faster, if you get a high-end type
- ... Thus can pack more data through the cable, possibly getting better sound quality, as toastedgoat has mentioned from his experience.
- Probably gives better bit-depth (explained below, in USB cons)

USB 2.0 cons
- slower than the better types of firewire
- can produce more "flimsy" sounding recordings, if you're trying to pack too much data through it
- most USB plugs probably aren't going to give you full bit-depth for something like huge hardware effects.  For example, most recordings are finalized at 16-bit depth, yet most effects (and probably DAWs) will process at 24-bit, at least.  This means that the effect has better manipulation of your sounds, even if the final result must be reduced to 16-bit depth.  You'll still notice a difference.

Firewire cons
- Not as common, as far as "common" appliances go.  DAWs may very well be an exception.  Just don't expect to find extra "oh, I didn't think of that" uses for your firewire port if you don't already have a device that requires it.  This is for the reason TheKunadian has just stated: Mac pretty much owns it, and they have their heads so far up the butt of "proprietary" that it won't really change much in the future.
- More expensive. (yet given the speed differences, you can understand why)

So really there aren't huge practical disadvantages to using Firewire-- Just be sure that your recording hardware can use it.  If you're looking for something cheaper, due to budget restrictions, etc, then you can certainly get away with USB.  You will most likely notice USB falling short if you're trying to do hardware effects, before the sound data comes to your computer.  Arguably, you should avoid hardware effects that you might want to tweak later, since with software effects you can do just that, and the whole question of bit-depth and transfer speeds are then placed on your computer's shoulders, instead of your USB vs Firewire speeds.
#21April 6th, 2009 · 09:02 PM
115 threads / 18 songs
1,414 posts
United States of America
As for the computer you posted a link for-- it's really not a bad machine, but you could probably milk more out of your budget if you find the pieces separately, and then (if you need to) have someone who you know personally help you put the pieces together.

Processor (quad core, instead of just dual core): $180

Motherboard: $140

RAM: 6gb of DDR3 ram-- bleeding edge fast stuff: $110
or 4gb of DDR3:  $62

Power supply & case: $100

= between $482 - $530

What you're lacking from this setup is a harddrive, and whatever sound card you might want / firewire gadgets.  Any SATA / serial ATA hard drive would do the job.

The motherboard supports a PCI-express card which could easily accomodate your sound card, if you want to get one.  The stuff onboard probably isn't spectacular.

More money than the emachines one you linked to, but this dwarfs the emachine, in terms of speed and memory, and you're not wasting money on the pre-installed OS, dummy speakers, keyboard, mouse, etc.  Recycle your parts and use what you can (monitor, keyboard, mouse, hard drives, etc).

You can get a 1-terabyte (1024gb) drive for about $100 if you find the right deal If you want to stay cheaper, you can get 260gb or even 500gb for $60-$80, on average.

#22April 6th, 2009 · 10:45 PM
159 threads / 32 songs
1,956 posts
United States of America
usb pro's.... way cheaper to build units to hook up to your computer.. ipods and printers ect.. it's fast. and cheap.

cheap to build wins. so most manufacturers build things usb. plus it is the considered the standard format for computer hookups.

firewire400 is gone.. 800 still here. not sure for how much longer but for right now mac and windows still use it hopefully firewire 3200 is soon to make an appearance..

my pc is not that old it has 6 firewire ports ( I made sure of it when I built it) windows units built just for quality recording purposes will have firewire ports.

the following copied from gearsluts.z discusssion on firewire/usb.

USB and USB 2.0 are half-duplex. The connection cannot read/write simultaneously. Firewire has always been full duplex. USB 3.0 finally joins the full duplex party though it's still not going to deliver as much power as Firewire.

The thing that I don't like is that USB depends on your CPU to handle the I/O traffic from connected devices thus its CPU utilization will never be as low as a smarter connection like Firewire.

My ideal design for a computer is to take the CPU cores and have them focus on running my applications well and leave the I/O stuff to smart controllers. SCSI/SAS allow this and Firewire allows this which is why they are more expensive technologies.

USB is a master-slave protocol. One of the nodes in the network is the master (the computer) and it must arbitrate communication, polling each of the devices. This places very important limitations.

Firewire, on the other hand, is a peer-to-peer protocol. All the stations are equal (audio interface, disk, computer...) and the only difference is the role they assume.

And of course Firewire is full-duplex. Moreover it can access memory directly, which has an advantage on CPU load and, more important, latency.

usb 3.0 is addressing some of these issues.  I would look for some changes made in usb in the next couple of years... USB is more common .. for one fact.. cheaper and easier to build units that use USB. and they are willing to sacrifice quality, and speed for it... that is fine for printers and ipods and phones ect.. not so good when it comes to making quality recordings.. as stated above.. the more info that can be moved at the fastest speed the better it is........... essential when doing quality sound recordings.

faster speed= lowest latency= tighter recordings.  plus more information moved. thicker sound.

I use usb and firewire both on my pc and mac.   imho I am not fond of using the usb for recording guitars and vocals,... do to latency issues (even with the buffers set as low as they can go) . The usb is thinner sounding,.  plus the jitter on usb devices in their AD/DA conversion is not very good which = loss of information = thinner sounds.

I am not worrying about arguing for or against either one.. what I am trying to do is help fellow musicians and people wanting to make music with the computer machines.. to spend their money wisely, shop around.... understand what the industry professionals use, and why they use it ( I know most people can't afford that stuff), That information gives people a chance to purchase wisely and be satisfied with the purchases they make...

 I like the computer system TLS linked to above.. also .. I will give a link to a recording unit that for the price is getting very good reviews .

 I know this is a long post , lots of information given.. Here is the link to the very reasonably priced unit.
I haven't had a chance to record with it yet. I understand it performs very well though. and the tube preamps for this low of  price are doing a great job.

#23April 6th, 2009 · 11:32 PM
115 threads / 18 songs
1,414 posts
United States of America
good info.  amen.
#24April 7th, 2009 · 12:53 AM
24 threads
166 posts
United States of America
What about like a FireWire audio card?
Firewire interfaces are way out my budget..
But If there is a FireWire audio card or something..
That would be sick!! (thAt's good for you older folk)
I could stay in my budget have super recording
And upgrade in the future!!
#25April 7th, 2009 · 01:34 AM
115 threads / 18 songs
1,414 posts
United States of America
(not sure if you posted this before/after my last email to you-- i did link to a single-port firewire bay-drive thingy, which had some usb ports, firewire port, a mic-in, and one other small jack.  I'm not sure how specialized it was toward audio, though, or the speed of the firewire port on it.)
#26April 7th, 2009 · 01:47 AM
159 threads / 32 songs
1,956 posts
United States of America
DS. first you need to address what it is your trying to accomplish with your recordings.. is it just going to be you doing the recordings?  Are you going to need to record more than one instrument at a time?
Is it just to put some ideas together and for fun?
not to upset of the quality isn't professional sounding?
How good of a musician are you also might play into it... no use spending lots of money if you're a beginner guitar player or something and just recording some ideas and possible songs stuff.

That said.  USB can bring you into the recording realm in your pc for  a decent price.
What I would think of is putting usb in the computer. make sure it has pci/e slots and if you get the right mother board it should have a couple of firewire 800's on the back of it too hopefully.. that way you could put your money into your computer. use your recording software that you have.. and find a cheap audio interface.
usb or firewire. you might be cheaper to lets say get a line 6 guitar port of some kind. and then buy a cheap usb condenser mic.  or maybe a cheap usb  mixer with effects. and load in free vst preamps to help with the tones.

their are a lot of options.

if you don't need a lot of different inputs at one time... and want a quality interface..

also look at the guitar rig or line 6 stuff. some of the line 6 interfaces will give you guitar amp tones and vocal inputs too.

Lots of ways of getting sound into a computer.. Best advice I can give is  shop shop shop. get your money hand and look around . understand what is out there... so when you see a great deal you are ready to jump on it.
#27April 9th, 2009 · 08:17 PM
24 threads
166 posts
United States of America
as pro as i can get
alright.. i've been doing some hardcore deal hunting...
I found this little beaut!!!

              A presonus firewire interface....

it has 2 mic(xlr) inputs...
2 phono (trs) inputs
it also has a stero rca input in the back
as well as an output for monitors...
all for $200
What do you think?
for 100$ more i can get the 6x10
but do i really need it?
and you can find firewire cards for like 15or 16$ man...
thats nice!!!!

i'm shopping around kinda and finding cheap prices and hope to have a list of stuff
for you guys to approve! lol thanks man
#28April 9th, 2009 · 11:29 PM
159 threads / 32 songs
1,956 posts
United States of America
That should work.  keep looking you might be able to find one with the pci card for about the same price.
 The ones with their own card , usually have rerouting (monitor mixes done at the pci card level so the computer doesn't have to do it)

That looks like a pretty good deal. See if you can try it out against some others at the store. Guitar Centers will let you do this.
#29April 10th, 2009 · 04:02 PM
4 threads / 3 songs
75 posts
United States of America
I use a Audiofire 12 (ASIO is required or nothing will playback proper) with a PC, Dual Core proc, 2-Ea. 250Gig internal HD,s 2 gig RAM
AA 2.0 is the platform. It all runs great. It takes allot of tracks and plugs before it even glitches.
The RAM is important for plug-ins. Believe me, you will want them, need them, and use them.
There is lots of cool free ones out there.
The firewire device works great and sounds great.
Good luck with the upgrade!
#30April 10th, 2009 · 08:32 PM
24 threads
166 posts
United States of America

i can use a direct box for my guitar?!!?!?
1 2
Sorry, you do not have access to post...
Wanna post? Join Today!

Server Time: December 15th, 2019 · 6:29 PM
© 2002-2012 BandAMP. All Rights Reserved.