Hi,

I'm considering building a PC hard disk multitrack recording system. I have seen a fair a number of external audio interfaces with for example SPDIF IN/OUT, 4 line in 2 line out, MIDI IN/OUT.

Theres a lot out there and I'm wondering if anybody here is using anything similar and can advise?

Thanks

Are you using pro tools?

How much do you wanna spend? Who are you, what do you record, what do you want to record, what will you *actually* be recording... these are all important questions to have answered about you before anyone, myself included, can REALLY give you any reasonably sound advice.

regardless i'd recommend any of these:

M-Audio Delta 1010 ~ $250
RME Hammerfall 9652 ~ $500

Apogee Mini-Me $1,200
RME Fireface ~ $1,500
Digidesign HD ~ $10,000 (and up... waaaaayyyy up)


RULE #1 Don't get hung up on particular hardware... you might not need or want an "external" interface...

RULE #2 Do your research

RULE #3 See rule #2



go to http://gearslutz.com/

it's a MUCH better place to find out about this kind of stuff... the key is DO YOUR RESEARCH before you buy.

if you're getting anything less than the Digidesign, you'll need a beefy mofo computer... i'm talking you want dual core, or dual cpu athlon 64 at least.

The Apogee Mini-Me has EVERYTHING i mean everything you need to get started, the pre-amps are high quality, as are the DACs... so you can't really go wrong there.

RME has ADAT inputs if you want a gazillion inputs on the cheap.

If you just don't have ANY cash, simply get a $30 Chaintech AV-710 and a $40 Behringer mixer (ewww, barf, behringer... despite their bad rap the UBXXX series of mixers are pretty good). That'll work, it's what i started on.

Ok, lets clear things up then:

Software wise, I'll probably use Samplitude to begin with, because I can

Hardware: I had planned on buying an fast Athalon 64, a decent motherboard and 1 gig of memory. I have hard disks already. This would form the backbone.

I know from my current and past exploits in recording that I want to be able to record at least 4 separate tracks simultaneously. Thats just something that I'm comfotable with. I'd also like to have SPDIF In / Out, and a stereo output.

MIDI ports would be nice but not necessary as I already have separate ports that I have bought or built myself.

As to whom I am - a Mr nobody who likes to muck about with their own compositions for fun. Certainly not a professional musician or a producer or even a sound engineer, although I would say that I know a thing or two about audio.

Price wise? I was thinking in terms of about €300.

What will I record? Guitars and sound module outputs, a microphone. I will most likely sync the PC with some other outboard recording equipment  or sequencer at some point.

Any more 'sound' advice (excuse the pun) most welcome!

Many thanks.  

I should add that I use a mixer too, but I'd say it's pretty clear what class of audio device I'm aiming at.

first of S/PDIF is overrated, don't worry about that and iirc it's still only one channel anyway.

if you want multi track, ditch the mixer. maybe keep it as a monitor mixer though. or for if you need a preamp.

my suggestions:

M-Audio Delta 1010 or RME Hammerfall 9652
Studio Projects VTB1 (two of them if you want stereo)
FMR Audio RNC - "The Really Nice Compressor"
FMR AUdio RNP - "The Really Nice Preamp" (this one is stereo)
a few SM-57s (i guess you've already got a mic, but these are always good)
AT4047 (a wicked nice condenser mic for cheap)
really nice cables (they're expensive bro, good ones are like $50-$100 per cable so factor them in)

considering your budget, you'll have money left over after you buy the PCI Card, so factor in other stuff you might want... if you get a PCI card you'll need either a mixer or a preamp for most of your stuff. I'd personally recommend getting the PCI Card and 4 VTB1's... i've got a VTB1 and it's great. For the price you absolutely cannot beat the quality. Even on the PCI card they're still Line In's so you'll need a preamp. also a good compressor is worth it's weight in gold, especially when it comes to vocals.

also i fortell of your future that you will spend $5000 by years end... so up your budget to $1000 ~= 500GBP, you'll be glad you did.

Thanks for the advice. I'm actually considering the M-Audio Delta 66 or the PCI card only version of the 1010.

I assume then that you rate M-Audio fairly well for quality and reliability?

go with the PCI only version of the 1010, it's really not that much more expensive than the 66. Also check eBay for it. I found my M-Audio card for $30 under list with free 2 day shipping. Of course, you are in the UK i see, so things might be different... regardless, eBay is always good to check out.

there is only one problem i've ever had with M-Audio.

that is: if you have older hardware do not get the Delta Audiophile 192

there is some sort of glitch that M-Audio knows about but doesn't tell you about where it freezes your computer on boot. There is a workaround but it's a pain in the ass. After contacting their tech support (and their tech support is by the way, really good) I found out that this was a known issue. And mad props to their tech support for putting up with my angry flaming lame pissed off mofo carcass. I was absolutely none too happy to purchase $150 of equipment and then have it "not work"... of course it did work, it just "had issues" lol... other than that... all their cards are top notch and work very well. The Delta 1010 i know is a great card, i've seen it in use in multiple places.

This problem only happens with the Delta Audiophile 192 and only happens on older hardware. If you get any other card, and have a computer which is newer than 5 years old, you're golden.

To my knowlege, all the M-Audio cards use the Envy24 based chipsets, which is essentially the best chipset you can get for pro-audio without gettting a ProTools|HD system.

And! don't forget to budget money for good cables - Mogami Gold are pretty much the best but they are hella expensive. You will need a pre-amp to use with the M-Audio Card. You need one for the mic, and you'll probably want one for the guitar.

ok, gotta run... peace

Cheers man - the 1010LT it will be then!

you will be happy... and that works with Linux btw in fact you can see it in one of the Ardour screenshots

I was going to make a new thread, but then saw this one, so sorry for the bump.

A good mid-range interface is the M-Audio Firewire 410. Has everything you need while only running less than $300.

Also, don't let expensive cables throw you. All the "oxygen free" and "low resistance" crap is just that- crap.

A good cable is not that expensive. The main thing to consider is capacitance, not resistance. With the high impedence input section of the amp, the resistance is irrelevant (unless it is open, of course ). The biggest factor is shielding. Cheap cables have a few strands of copper that wrap around the cable. A good cable has a braided shield with 100% coverage. Also, the only good thing about gold plated cables is if you do a lot of gigging, and they are affected by different elements. Other than that, you don't need them for home use to make decent recordings.

A good hyper cardiod condenser mic is needed for vocals and/or acoustic instruments. If you can afford it, a pair of AKG C-1000S mics are excellent for recording acoustic guitars- one aimed at the sound hole, and the other aimed at the fingerboard at 45 degree angles. Gives great ambiance. Just remember than condenser mics need a voltage source (phantom power) to operate. The Firewire 410 has an internal 48V source.

For recording electric intruments, either going direct in to the interface using a modeler (pod, v-amp, etc), or using a dynamic microphone (like a Shure SM-57) to mic the amp will suffice.

To get a decent sounding track, you need not go ballistic on hardware, but it definitely helps to get good stuff.

I use Cool Edit Pro, and I like it better than Pro Tools, but that is just me

Hey I don't know if you have already decided and gone out and bought something, but I'd like to throw in some ideas people haven't really touched on. You can actually stick with a good ol' analog mixer and get a new one with a firewire port in the back. This will actually send all of the channels on your mixer into the computer as individual tracks. There is also the (considerably cheaper) usb option, which sends the stereo mix into the computer. USB is more in your price range.

Basically you can weigh the balance between more features, more channels, but a stereo mix vs. less channels/features, but each track sent individually.

Here are two mixers that meet your price (in usd anyways, don't know how to convert currency)

The alesis multimix 8 firewire is an 8-channel mixer with 4 xlr's and preamps and a firewire in the back.

The Yamaha MW12 is a 12-channel with 6 xlr's and preamps and a USB port in the back. This is what I use in my studio, if you go to my profile and look at my 'albums' you can see a pic

These are both the same price, but there are considerable differences, aside from usb/firewire. The yamaha mixer has 2 more xlrs and preamps, and also has all the connections moved to the back. The mixer is a bit larger, and has a much nicer interface imo. Also the yamaha mixer has XLR st outs for a higher quality monitor feed (the alesis just has 1/4"s) It also has 4 more channels which comes in handy for me. The extra xlr's will come in handy when you're mic'ing a drum kit for instance.


Just thought you might not have considered this route. This was absolutely perfect for me, since I'm very comfortable with analog mixers, and couldnt imagine a better interface than just slapping a digital connector on the back of the mixer and running it straight into the computer.